I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

Villain has only 10 hands. Hasn't yet pfr, but VPIP 50%.


Cryptologic 0.50/1.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">8 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero ???

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

I peel one off cuz we got a gutshot:)

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

I call. You have 7.5 outs. If I dont hit on the turn its an easy fold.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I call. You have 7.5 outs. If I dont hit on the turn its an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not gonna count those J's as full outs, but I'll peel anyway. I'm not really expecting to see the river though...

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

You are correct. But even 6.5 outs is enough imo in this situation.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

Call the flop for the gutshot, fold turn UI. His 3bet is a serious issue since he's 3betting an UTG raiser out of position, with no one left to act, so it's not to fold anyone. He thinks for sure he's got the best hand to start with. Given these facts, there aren't many hands he holds that don't have you crushed right now. It's kind of high-level poker, but if you can turn a T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and river a Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], that's a good play here too.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

Theres a strong arguement for folding, if you hit your queen(the clean non[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] one) you may split occasionally, he may fold to your raise etc.

I just wonder if you'll make it up the times you miss....

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I call. You have 7.5 outs. If I dont hit on the turn its an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 7.5 is generous. You have 3 good outs to a straight, a BDFD, and 2 jacks. The jacks however put 4 to a straight on the board. I would give you 5 outs tops, with a very slip peel due to implied odds.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

Call. You have a gutshot, BDFD, and your jacks may be clean. Even with just a gutshot and BDFD, I'd call here. That's roughly 5 outs, which is enough when you factor in implied odds.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

FWIW, I just ran the numbers at cardplayer.com, and (at the flop) I'm a 4:1 dog against AK, 5:1 against AA, and 9:1 against QQ.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

Call. You have good implied odds if you hit your straight you could also get the flush..although not likely. If you hit a J though still call down.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call. You have good implied odds if you hit your straight you could also get the flush..although not likely. If you hit a J though still call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have fairly poor implied odds in this situation. Whatever hand you make 1) puts a four-flush or four-straight on the board and 2) can easily be outdrawn by a board-pairing river.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

*grunch*
He's played half the hands and hasn't raised once. It's a small sample but he's raising less than 10% (and now he's 3 bet) and hero is behind here 95%.
I might be tempted to peel one more for a SB convincing myself I had the implied odds BUT the truth is I could still be dominated when I catch my J. Even if I do catch the miracle Q (and he's caught trips), I'm still going to lose ~20%.

FOLD. Punish the [censored] next time.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain has only 10 hands. Hasn't yet pfr, but VPIP 50%.


Cryptologic 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J.
Hero raises, 8 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K, T, A (2 players)
BB bets, Hero ???


[/ QUOTE ]

Cap pf, fold flop.

I love pocket pairs.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

I call here. Q, J, even of Qd is good here. I don't see raising beating many of the hands that will 3bet and lead on this flop. You're drawing to the nut straight, a decent outside flush, and the trips may very well stay good here if you hit. Since the quality of your drawing hands is high, I say call and see that turn card. Fold if he leads and turn is a blank.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

I think this is an easy fold.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

everyone who said the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is a dirty out, please read the board.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

Thanks all, I did the peel &amp; folded when a blank hit the turn.

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

Grunch

Cap preflop, then either

a) raise/call flop, regardless fold turn ui if bet in to.
b) call flop, reevaluate pot odds for live gs and an out for the JJ too

dependent on your read

Re: I hate pocket pairs (JJ)
 

[ QUOTE ]
everyone who said the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is a dirty out, please read the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah this is clearly clean