Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

The recent post by mikel where he talks about being "weak tight on the river lately" made me think about this hand to talk about.

30-60 Bellagio dayshift. Babe is on the button vs. solid playing Black guy. HEY, the fact he is Black is irrelevant but used here only for descriptive purposes.

Local "loaded" lady limps 2UTG. Folded to black guy who is in the c/o. Black guy raises and I 3 bet with offsuit kings from the button. Local loaded lady calls and Black guy calls.

Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Checked to me and I bet. Turn is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Checked to me and I bet. Local loaded lady now folds.

River is J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Black guy checks and I check.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

how often do you think he pays you off with 99 or 88? mathematically 4 times as likely he has those hands over JJ so you have to be pretty sure he won't pay you off

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Pokerbabe.. if you are not making this bet you need to move WAY down in limits.. I hope this is a joke. Although i have listened to you on "Live at the Bike" and your lack of value betting wouldn't surprise me..

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

that's a pretty bad river check there babe. and prepare to have about 40 people tell you so in this thread.

and watch out for those coloreds, theyre a wily bunch.

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
that's a pretty bad river check there babe. and prepare to have about 40 people tell you so in this thread.


[/ QUOTE ]


1 down and 39 to go...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

With the information you've given, I would bet the river and fold to a checkraise against this guy.

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

I heard this story, which I relate second (third?) hand.

There was a dispute in a no-limit game at Commerce where a player was taking an inordinate amount of time to make a decision. A black player said something about it. The inordinate time-taker replied that the black man was stupid because he is black. The bigot was thrown out of the club.

Apparently the two met outside. The black guy is, I believe, a former NBA player. I'd put him at about six-six. His opponent was about five-eight and slightly built.

Next thing you know the big black guy has the little guy by the neck, and Jack is trying to break it up; Jack is grabbing the big guy around his neck, and being whipped around by the guy like a rag doll. A scene right out of WWF.

Sorry I don't know the end of the story. Just another day in paradise/Commerce.

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

While this might not have been her proudest moment, I can assure you Pokerbabe does not need to move down in limit. She does quite well in the games she plays in, thank you.

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I 3 bet with offsuit kings from the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you'd only smoothcall suited kings, right? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Nice to see you back on here Babe.

ummm...bet the river.

b

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that's a pretty bad river check there babe. and prepare to have about 40 people tell you so in this thread.


[/ QUOTE ]


1 down and 39 to go...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[/ QUOTE ]

38 and counting...

Lawrence

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pokerbabe.. if you are not making this bet you need to move WAY down in limits.. I hope this is a joke. Although i have listened to you on "Live at the Bike" and your lack of value betting wouldn't surprise me..

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that's a pretty bad river check there babe. and prepare to have about 40 people tell you so in this thread.


[/ QUOTE ]


1 down and 39 to go...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[/ QUOTE ]

38 and counting...

Lawrence


[/ QUOTE ]

BET THE [censored] RIVER

37.....

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

wow

36

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Even a guy as weak tight as me finds that to be weak tight.

35

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Ugh.

34.

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[censored] guys relax, she obviously misclicked. dont worry pokerbabe, you can do no wrong in my eyes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And yes you should bet this river

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]


Local "loaded" lady limps 2UTG. Folded to black guy who is in the c/o. Black guy raises and I 3 bet with offsuit kings from the button. Local loaded lady calls and Black guy calls.



[/ QUOTE ]

You know I love ya, Babe...but are you sure she wasn't the only lady who was loaded that day? Why no bet? The only reasonable hand he has here that beats you is JJ....he certainly doesn't have JT...

So when are we playing golf again? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

live at the bike pokerbabe is a different person.

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

This is an autoplay hand imo.

33

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

I think the bigger question is how bad of a hand do you need to value bet this river? I assume everyone is betting QT here too? How low of a pocket pair would you value bet (if at all)?

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Why bet. If she is the lady named Robin I played at the Mirage 20-40 last year I certainly would not call with over fifty percent of the hands she have beat

Kim

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Actually, as Gabe noted, I am not the pokerbabe at the bike. That person took my "handle" and is trying to pass herself off as THE original PokerBabe [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The real PokerBabe checks this river against this SOLID playing Black guy for the following reasons.


1). He does NOT have a RBP (really big pair) like KK or AA as he doesn't 4 bet preflop which he would do about 100% of the time. So, we have to narrow his possible holdings down from there.

2), There is a 10 on the flop and he can BEAT a 10 since he called the flop. He would check raise the turn with a set of 10s here about 100% of the time, so when he just calls the turn, I am pretty sure he has an overpair less than KK.

3). If he can beat a 10 with an overpair less than KK that means he has exactly two holdings and they are JJ and QQ.

4). His check calling pattern throughout the hand works perfectly for his plan to induce when he spikes on the river. He is now darn sure I have an overpair to the board and the innoculous looking Jack makes it very likely I will bet my overpair on the river.

5). By checking the river I get to see if my read was correct. And it was. Fortunately for me, it's probable that he will now always bet his hand on the river against me when he is leading.

LGPG,
Babe [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Hi Dominic,

You said it. The only hand he has that beats me is JJ and you got it right. So...., why bet? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I am ready to play golf any Mon or Tues. Let's do so so.

Love to Erika,

LGPG

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Hi Sin,

Yes, that is the only other way to play this river. Most of the posters here would pay off the check raise.

LGPG

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Hi Mike,

Feel free to bet on and pay off the Black guy. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I would probably never check this against you, btw. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

LGPG

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

what a random player should value bet and what pokerbabe should value bet are not the same thing

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Hi Kim,

You have a good memory. I am Robyn from the Mirage.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Hi Andy,

Nice to see you, as always. I do so dig those new glasses you got. They are MAD COOL as leon would say. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] Actually, this was my "proudest moment" because I saved myself 60 bucks that I can use toward that dinner I owe you.

Let's do it next time you are in town.

LGPG

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Spot on AJ all in. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

He NEVER ever pays me off with 99 or 88 here.

LGPG

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
3). If he can beat a 10 with an overpair less than KK that means he has exactly two holdings and they are JJ and QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are 6 combos of QQ and 3 combos of JJ he can have. Are you assuming he's going to be folding QQ >50% of the time?

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, as Gabe noted, I am not the pokerbabe at the bike. That person took my "handle" and is trying to pass herself off as THE original PokerBabe [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The real PokerBabe checks this river against this SOLID playing Black guy for the following reasons.


1). He does NOT have a RBP (really big pair) like KK or AA as he doesn't 4 bet preflop which he would do about 100% of the time. So, we have to narrow his possible holdings down from there.

2), There is a 10 on the flop and he can BEAT a 10 since he called the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why can't he have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] going for his flush draw the whole way, now he spikes one of his cards and calls...? (Note: I wouldn't play those hands the same way in this spot, but many could and would.)

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Black guy checks and I check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi robyn its scott, I did not know you were pokerbabe. Even though I play against you often I will help you here. If I was not so busy deciding if I was going to pay of a river blank I would have bet the river myself because you have a bad habit of checking the river with the best hand on the end too often.

For what it is worth your anaysis of this hand is correct but you tend to give me too narrow a hand range in general. To the point I did not like my Jacks vs. your three bet even though they my hand was way in the upper end of my range of raising hands in this spot. Like I said I was not even sure if I was going to pay of the river and only called the turn because I felt like there was a good chance you would give me a free showdown. Overall I think you are solid but miss some value bets that I would expect someone with your obvious knowlage of the game to make. You are right that QQ is probably the only hand I would pay you off with here.

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Black guy checks and I check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi robyn its scott, I did not know you were pokerbabe.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is funny. You didn't know who she was but you knew it was you due to being called the "black guy" in the hand. We definitely need to diversify this game some...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is funny. You didn't know who she was but you knew it was you due to being called the "black guy" in the hand. We definitely need to diversify this game some...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
30-60 Bellagio dayshift, solid playing Black guy

[/ QUOTE ]

I was 99% sure it was me already at this point before I even read the hand. I was also pretty sure it was robyn when I read that also because she has to be the only female day player there that could possibly be a 2+2er.

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I was 99% sure it was me already at this point before I even read the hand. I was also pretty sure it was robyn when I read that also because she has to be the only female day player there that could possibly be a 2+2er.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, I forgot that the specifics of the location were given as well -- thought you pulled that out of nowhere, which is where the (minimal) amount of humor was found.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, I forgot that the specifics of the location were given as well -- thought you pulled that out of nowhere, which is where the (minimal) amount of humor was found.



[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was funny also. I also thought it was funny I knew it was robyn before I read the hand as well.

IGNORANT
 

<SARCASM>

yeah, you missed a value bet, you really suck and should let this one mistake (?) be the reason you quit poker forever or at least move back down to the 4-8 at bellagio.

I bet I know which "loaded local lady" you're talking about....I think she's originally from NY or NJ..???

Re: Weak Tight you say Mikel?
 

Yikes, so my cover is blown? LOL. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] It really is a small world.

LGPG

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: IGNORANT
 

Her name starts with an N and if I had her money, I wouldn't have to play poker at all. If I did play, it would be something a bit higher. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

LGPG [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]