Something Eternal
 

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If there were ever a time in the history of the universe that there was absolute nothing, zip, nada. Then I am convinced there would still be nothing. This proves to me that there must be something that trancends time and is Eternal. Nothing has ever just popped into being without a cause, so I can logically reason that that sort of thing doesn't occur.

Your thoughts...

Re: Something Eternal
 

How did the thing that transcends time and is eternal come into being?

Re: Something Eternal
 

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If there were ever a time in the history of the universe that there was absolute nothing, zip, nada. Then I am convinced there would still be nothing. This proves to me that there must be something that trancends time and is Eternal.
Your thoughts...

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You seem to give your conviction very freely.

chez

Re: Something Eternal
 

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0 + 0 = 0

If there were ever a time in the history of the universe that there was absolute nothing, zip, nada. Then I am convinced there would still be nothing. This proves to me that there must be something that trancends time and is Eternal. Nothing has ever just popped into being without a cause, so I can logically reason that that sort of thing doesn't occur.

Your thoughts...

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It's a bit more complicated than that. According to the big bang theory, there never was a time when there was nothing; it existed as a singularity, eternal (kinda), with properties that are very difficult to understand, given the different nature of reality in that state.

Read <u>A Brief History of Time</u> by Stephen Hawking for a much better explanation; it's a very cool book.

Re: Something Eternal
 

I agree. Your arguments seems to be dependent on the flow of time.
Time is just another dimension. A dimension that we are so constrained to that we can't imagine anything else.

Re: Something Eternal
 

Hi,
I agree. If our universe is finite, and it has not always existed, it had to be created in some way. I choose to believe in God, and have mostly a deistic view of God. I simply think this is the most likely explanation for how our reality came into existence. Of course there are an infinite number of other possible exlanations, and they are all untestable. I just happen to believe that with the complexity and inflexibility of the physical laws in our universe, that a "conscious" (not necessarily like our own) force is the source of our reality.

PS- Haven't read Hawking yet, but I intend to. I'm interested to see his explanation of the Big Bang.

Re: Something Eternal
 

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Nothing has ever just popped into being without a cause, so I can logically reason that that sort of thing doesn't occur.

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That's not even wrong. ( that'd be an upgrade).

Re: Something Eternal
 

[ QUOTE ]
0 + 0 = 0

If there were ever a time in the history of the universe that there was absolute nothing, zip, nada. Then I am convinced there would still be nothing. This proves to me that there must be something that trancends time and is Eternal. Nothing has ever just popped into being without a cause, so I can logically reason that that sort of thing doesn't occur.

Your thoughts...

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Time is bull, it's a concept, what else is there but the present moment, everything else is a concept, when you transcend concepts you see the continual present moment, when you're stuck in your thoughts you're stuck in thought world which is delusion. God = the present moment, whatever that means. . .

Re: Something Eternal
 

The whole meaning of an eternal being is it wasn't caused, that's what the argument is all about. Because nothing can just pop into existence without a cause, there must have been something that never had a beginning. There is something that has always existed.

Re: Something Eternal
 

Why not? It makes sense to me. If I can make someone think about their purpose, I have done my job. Eternity and purpose go hand in hand. If I am created by an eternal being, what happens when I die, is that it?

Re: Something Eternal
 

I'll take a look.
But, the absolutely massive complexity of this singularity you speak of... I mean, this thing that created the universe, this uncaused brilliantly coriographed entity. This ball of energy that caused the universe to Bang into existence, shouts consiousness to me. That's one very lucky, skilled piece of matter.

Re: Something Eternal
 

My brain must not be big enough to understand your post.

Re: Something Eternal
 

If you believe that you have some kind of control over time, your deluded.
I know after I wake that another day has passed and some day I am going to die.
Time is measurable and testable, the earth is rotating around our sun once a year, your time on earth is fleeting away from you at a rapid pace. I suggest you adopt a rational view of time so you can make best use of it. Say 24 hours, another day has passed. I know It's very unlikely i'm going to live passed 100, get a move on.

Re: Something Eternal
 

No control over time here bro. That doesn't make time any less of a concept though. Quite useful but still a concept, do you not see that?

Re: Something Eternal
 

Nah, I don't see why time can't be seen as a sure thing, measurable and testable, I know that time is there ticking along, I know what has happened in the past and can make assumptions about the future.

Re: Something Eternal
 

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...I know that time is there ticking along...

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No, time doesn't tick along. Time is only a measure of change. If there is absolutely no change in the universe, there is no time interval.

Think about it. Time is only relative to a change (clock, uranium decay, whatever). If there is no change anywhere (and not in your clock), there is no change and no time interval.

Time is relative, it is a derived measure, not an absolute one.

Re: Something Eternal
 

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Ok, if there were a time when change never existed then there would be no change here and now, eh?

Because something exists now, anything, a 1. I can reason that there has been something that is eternal.

1. Something exists now
2. There was never absolute nothing.
3. Something is eternal