Kings
 

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero ?

Re: Kings
 

Cold call and reevaluate.

Re: Kings
 

Calls and with the intention of raising the turn. It's unlikey that a 3-bet is going to get anyone to fold at 2/4 that's already put there money in. The raiser is on your immediate right giving you perfect position on the turn.

Lost Wages

Rest of Flop and Turn
 

So....I cold call and reevalute... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Still hope to hear some thoughts on 3 betting though.

MP3 is 30/8/2.6 over 146 if anyone cares to know.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero ?

Re: Kings
 

Part of me says call, another says raise. In the heat of the moment I probably 3 bet this, but that does not make it right [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Jason says call, and I'm wondering if that has something to do with possibly raising a turn card that looks friendly.

Re: Kings
 

(grunch) I want to say 3-bet with your overpair, inside-straight draw, and backdoor flush draw. You may get a free card (if you want it) unless Button super-cold-calls. Even if it's capped here, you still have good equity with position.

Re: Kings
 

Big pot. I like three-betting to try to whittle down the competition. On the other hand, calling could set up a sweet turn raise if a brick falls. But I like three-betting a little better. Also, you're likely to get more reliable information on later streets if you announce your hand strength now.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

Yeah okay now you raise and hope no one has an 8.

Jesus Party 2/4 looks like the way .5/1 USED to be! Are most games like this, or were you practicing good table selection?

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

On the turn, you have three outs to the nuts getting 14:1 in a 13 BB pot, so easy call, right? No need to raise or semi-bluff/raise, I think.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

He is not drawing to the nuts, but he practically is (you can count those 3 outs). I perfer a raise to a call -- it is not out of the realm of possibility he is still leading that that the flop raiser has a hand like AJ.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

That was one of the turn cards we didn't want to see. Just call.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

I would just call the turn. Against six players and that board I really think you need a Q river to take this down. Raising is only going get it 3-bet no one is going to fold and even if you are best right now you need to dodge half the deck on the river

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

I think you call the flop with the intention of raising the turn.

I think you have to consider the 7 as a fairly safe turn card and I'd consider it a pretty large mistake not raising this turn.

EDIT: I'd consider it a GIGANTIC mistake not to raise this turn.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you call the flop with the intention of raising the turn.

I think you have to consider the 7 as a fairly safe turn card and I'd consider it a pretty large mistake not raising this turn.

EDIT: I'd consider it a GIGANTIC mistake not to raise this turn.



[/ QUOTE ]
I'm apprehensive as I don't see the 7 as being as safe you do. Not NEARLY so.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to consider the 7 as a fairly safe turn card and I'd consider it a pretty large mistake not raising this turn.

EDIT: I'd consider it a GIGANTIC mistake not to raise this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this such a safe card? People would stick around with an 8 here all the time, especially in a field this big and a pot this big. There are also all types of two pair hands that could be out against you.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to consider the 7 as a fairly safe turn card and I'd consider it a pretty large mistake not raising this turn.

EDIT: I'd consider it a GIGANTIC mistake not to raise this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this such a safe card? People would stick around with an 8 here all the time, especially in a field this big and a pot this big. There are also all types of two pair hands that could be out against you.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Given the action....who's holding the 8?
2. You have up to 16 outs against a 2 pair hand.
3.There are WAYWAYWYAYWYWYAYY too many hands that you want to fold here not to raise. This is easily a case where raising with a second best hand could be worth it.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

I honestly thought there were 2 gaps between that turn card...need to drop the bong...

Here's the whole hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (28 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero folds, Button calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 32 BB

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

I'd call the river even though I'm sure that I'm more than 99% beat. Just because the pot is that big.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

For fun or more conversation:

MP2 - Js9s

MP3 - Qh8h

Button - QcJd

BB (a 2+2r) - Kc8c

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

MP3 could have Q9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and have played this hand perfectly.

I call the river.

EDIT: Too late.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

Sorry...MP3 had Qh8h for the flopped straight

slight hijack
 

This is a slight hijack of this thread to alert all you guys that have aggresion factor problems. You guys really need to listen to Jason_t in this thread when he talks about calling. This hand is great example of when calling with what appears to be a great hand is the optimal play. I think too often we are blinded by the whole 2+2 'me have good hand, me must protect hand, me raise' mantra. Remember calling is ok.

***end hijack***

Re: slight hijack
 

Hobbs:

Not a hijack. I think calling here is best as well. Had I seen the 7 for what is was, I would not have raised.

Re: Rest of Flop and Turn
 

At least you weren't last place.

Re: slight hijack
 

This pot is 14BB when it makes it to Hero.

Hero only needs to increase his equity by less than 7% to make this raise correct.

If you assume that MP3 is WAY more likely to have 2 pair or even just a flush or straight draw, than he is to have flopped a straight -

Lone K.
AK.
Bottom pair.
Next to bottom pair
Second pair.
Weak top pair.

If Hero folds ANY ONE of these hands, the raise was worth it.

Even if one person does have an 8.

For every hand that folds, Hero increases his equity by 1.5% for when one of the 3 remaining 8's falls on the river. He also gains ~5% equity by folding a lone K.

Just because we now know what people held, doesn't make the raise incorrect at the time.