Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

WTF is going on here. CNN just reported from the Astrodome that Houston police, on orders from the fire marshall, is not allowing anymore survivors in. The evacuees are distraught. I would snap if after the 7 hour drive I was told not to get off the bus.

They showed the floor of the Astrodome a few hours ago and I was thinking things are filling up fast.

Jeeeeez ... this has been just terrible.

Greg H.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
WTF is going on here. CNN just reported from the Astrodome that Houston police, on orders from the fire marshall, is not allowing anymore survivors in. The evacuees are distraught. I would snap if after the 7 hour drive I was told not to get off the bus.

They showed the floor of the Astrodome a few hours ago and I was thinking things are filling up fast.

Jeeeeez ... this has been just terrible.

Greg H.

[/ QUOTE ]




LET THEM PLAY! LET THEM PLAY!

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

I think a reporter this evening summed it up best...

We're in Iraq under the pretense that we are defenders of peace and helping the oppressed citizens.....

And this is how we handle the suffering in our own country.
What must the world think now?

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF is going on here. CNN just reported from the Astrodome that Houston police, on orders from the fire marshall, is not allowing anymore survivors in. The evacuees are distraught. I would snap if after the 7 hour drive I was told not to get off the bus.

They showed the floor of the Astrodome a few hours ago and I was thinking things are filling up fast.

Jeeeeez ... this has been just terrible.

Greg H.

[/ QUOTE ]




LET THEM PLAY! LET THEM PLAY!

[/ QUOTE ]

Superdome then Astrodome.

Let's play two!

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think a reporter this evening summed it up best...

We're in Iraq under the pretense that we are defenders of peace and helping the oppressed citizens.....

And this is how we handle the suffering in our own country.
What must the world think now?

[/ QUOTE ]

This thought crossed my mind the other day. Very humbling. On a sidenote, I heard that the UN offered assistance in the way of expertise (i.e. recovering infrastructure from flooding, real specific big think stuff, not $$$) and the U.S. has yet to reply.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

this whole situation is a huge clusterfuck.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

FEMA rescue workers are being made to pay for the gasoline to run their boats out of their own pockets ...

Someone [censored] take charge. Please.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

I know I'll be told to take it to another forum, so I'll just say that the lack of leadership here has been apalling.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

when I saw the videotape tonight on MSNBC I felt sick to my stomach. Even now I can't get the images of those people out of my head. I feel guilty that I had a warm dinner and can sleep in a bed tonight.

If our country can't get organized enough to get food to those poor people then we are truly pathetic and need to find ways to improve real fast. I know I won't sleep well tonight.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

Not the easiest thing that is going on right now to fix. It is way too early to tell how the response effort has been.

Only so much is humanly possible! Too much blame going on right now.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'll be told to take it to another forum, so I'll just say that the lack of leadership here has been apalling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%, They really dropped the ball on this one.
Total bullshit.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

I don't know what phase in dealing with a tragedy rage and blame comes in,, but for me it has arrived. I'm sitting here helplessly far away having escaped, watching the situation spin out of control, and have one question; If this hurricane hit San Diego, would the response to people begging for water after 3 days at the Convention Center, a spot that the rescued were sent be "Oh, we didn't know people were there, just sit tight, help is on the way, but dont try stealing juice in the meantime, or we'll shoot you"

We made jokes the next day, before it became apparent that the situation would get worse not better, that the only Democratic pocket in the Deep South would be gladly ignored by our nations leaders. The lack of response, since then, beyond platitudes, is sickening, and I pray that Venezuela, or some rich guy, breeches airspace and delivers some water to our dying countrymen.

We are supposed to be America, a country that can kick ass and take care of business. When it comes out that the amount of people who died post hurricane dwarves the amount who died during it, I hope we take a serious look at ourselves.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

So let me get this straight - they are supposed to just let everyone into the Astrodome? What do you think would happen if they didn't control how many people were let in there? I'll say No thanks to a Superdome in my backyard, thank you very much.

None of this is going to go smoothly - it just isn't going to happen.

A big injustice in this is that people that actually listened to the order to leave New Orleans weren't allowed in the Astrodome. Those that didn't leave, at least some of them, had a reserved spot.

(I'm aware many couldn't leave - but there are a whole lot of people there that waited this thing out in their house, and when that levee broke, they were screwed. Many of them should NEVER have been there.)

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

you might be right about the blame thing and I will try to be cautious about pointing fingers but I just couldn't bear to see those people at the Convention Center. Even if it was their fault for not leaving the city during the evacuation it is so hard to watch people who might be dying soon. I'm not saying anyone is to blame as much as saying let's fix the system so that there is a quicker response.

I mean my God we're such a wealthy country and the food and water is only one state away. Why can't we get it to them quicker?

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think a reporter this evening summed it up best...

We're in Iraq under the pretense that we are defenders of peace and helping the oppressed citizens.....

And this is how we handle the suffering in our own country.
What must the world think now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, because people aren't honestly doing their damnedest to get this thing taken care of. Obviously nobody gives a [censored].

We're the guys that get out and raise a ton of money for tsunami victims and stuff, and what does "the world" give back to us?

That's right.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

My question, If Cuba pissed the US off, wouldn't the US be able to put 50,000 troops in Havana in 2 days?

Why couldn't we have 2,000 bad@$$ mothertruckers in New Orleans by last night?

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not the easiest thing that is going on right now to fix. It is way too early to tell how the response effort has been.

Only so much is humanly possible! Too much blame going on right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a bunch of crap. Schools are cancelled all around New Orleans and there is a road out...Commandeer every bus around and use them.

Shots may or may not have been fired, so let's stop trying to rescue anyone? Our national guard risks there lives every day in Iraq, but they can not here at home?

Did you watch the press conferences today where everyone of those buffoons contradicted themselves, showed a lack of knowledge of the situation on the ground as Americans die of thirst?

Place blame, and place it fast, because people who don't have to are dying, and somebody needs to step up.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

A lot of the people that will be found dead after all that water recedes are people that were caught completely by surprise by the ensuing flood. Those people should NEVER have been there - many of them could have left, but decided not to.

There were safety personnel and vehicles ready to go as soon as this thing hit, but they couldn't get in there because you couldn't get mass amounts of vehicles into the city quickly due to the rising waters.

This isn't a tsumani, where water comes up, blows [censored] away, and you can just start the cleanup, however bad it is. The problem causing everyone to be in such dire straits CONTINUED TO GET WORSE as the days passed. That has to be taken into account here.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

Most of the people we see in the video footage from NO are black.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not the easiest thing that is going on right now to fix. It is way too early to tell how the response effort has been.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure. It seems pretty obvious that the response effort has been well intentioned but largely incompetent overall. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you would need to move those people out of the Superdome after a couple days, and to have a well thought out plan for doing so. Similarly, they seem to have no real idea concerning how to fix the levee.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of the people that will be found dead after all that water recedes are people that were caught completely by surprise by the ensuing flood. Those people should NEVER have been there - many of them could have left, but decided not to.

There were safety personnel and vehicles ready to go as soon as this thing hit, but they couldn't get in there because you couldn't get mass amounts of vehicles into the city quickly due to the rising waters.



[/ QUOTE ]

Some of what you say is true, a percentage of people stayed by choice, but I'm not sure what you know about the lower 9th ward, choice does not predominate there.

And I know people who drove out on the Crescent City connection on both Tuesday and Wednesday, I pray the people who left today made it, but if they can make it out, I want to find the people who could not make it in in the safety personnel and vehicles, and I suggest next time they hitch a ride with a reporter.

(And yes, I'm letting my rage out here, because I don't want my friends to have to deal with it...they have enough problems)

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know I'll be told to take it to another forum, so I'll just say that the lack of leadership here has been apalling.

[/ QUOTE ]

and yet in many ways, consistant with the pattern of the last 5 years -

RB

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight - they are supposed to just let everyone into the Astrodome? What do you think would happen if they didn't control how many people were let in there?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, everyone can't be let into the Astrodome. The fire marshall and local authorities understand that X number of people can be sustained there. A few posters have touched on one of the main issues here ... THERE IS NO LEADERSHIP. None. Zip. Unacceptable. No gameplan. No logistics. No communication. Not enough National Guard, Airborne, Marines, Infantry in NO. This hurricane was bringing menace. National Guard (at least 5,000) should have been stationed in NO BEFORE Katrina hit land. One poster stated its too early to tell how the relief effort is going. Ummm, come again. I heard the director of FEMA say tonight that he didn't realize people were at the convention center until today. I knew this information yesterday. Lack of foresight. Lack of leadership.

I am pissed that people are dieing as I type this. I am pissed that American citizens have gone 72 hours without food and water. What are you missing people. American citizens have gone without food and water for 3 days. Hello. I'll go out on a limb and say we'll hear our first canabilism report tomorrow.

Greg H.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the people we see in the video footage from NO are black.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you are agreeing with me, I am fairly aware of the racial mix in New Orleans, and can't help but think you are stating my case just without the furious ramblings. Like so many others, I've had a rough week, apologies if i missed something.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

Who should be leading this effort? Probably the governor, right? But we have the FEMA people, director of homeland security, the mayor, the president, etc. making statements. Presumably they are all making decisions. Or not making decisions, which actually seems to be the case. Who do you think should take over?

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]

Someone [censored] take charge. Please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who Bush? BAHAH

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight - they are supposed to just let everyone into the Astrodome? What do you think would happen if they didn't control how many people were let in there?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, everyone can't be let into the Astrodome. The fire marshall and local authorities understand that X number of people can be sustained there. A few posters have touched on one of the main issues here ... THERE IS NO LEADERSHIP. None. Zip. Unacceptable. No gameplan. No logistics. No communication. Not enough National Guard, Airborne, Marines, Infantry in NO. This hurricane was bringing menace. National Guard (at least 5,000) should have been stationed in NO BEFORE Katrina hit land. One poster stated its too early to tell how the relief effort is going. Ummm, come again. I heard the director of FEMA say tonight that he didn't realize people were at the convention center until today. I knew this information yesterday. Lack of foresight. Lack of leadership.

I am pissed that people are dieing as I type this. I am pissed that American citizens have gone 72 hours without food and water. What are you missing people. American citizens have gone without food and water for 3 days. Hello. I'll go out on a limb and say we'll hear our first canabilism report tomorrow.

Greg H.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just had to think about this...sending 5000 troops to NO before the storm hit, when literally EVERYBODY in NO knew that it was coming and were being told to leave...that just seems counterproductive. They can do no good DURING the storm, and they can no more force people to leave than local police could.

I think this situation is FAR more complex than you give it credit for being. Yes, its a tragedy, and I'm as saddened that people have and may still lose their lives over this. But the shelters are filling to beyond max capacity, and there's only so much that can be done at once.

In an ideal world, people would have been sent to N'awlins 3 or 4 days before the storm and FORCED people out of their homes. But that was no more logical than the plan that has been taken. The authorities are clearly doing everything in their current capacity to remedy this situation, to think otherwise is shortsighted and not fully informed.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

That's a damn good question. None of the obvious choices fit, and Mayor Ray Nagin, who I voted for, needs to toss in his badge like the scared deputy who crumbles under pressure in all good westerns. He is a business man who wanted to stamp out corruption, and has done as admirable job as possible, but he is so out of his league here, it would be funny, if people were not dying.

The best I can think of is take whoever is the top military strategist in Iraq, give him a 12 hour briefing and give him a post as special commander to Katrina Relief. He would know how to deal with chaotic situations like this, and would have to be respected by the bumblers who were now below him.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]

I am pissed that people are dieing as I type this. I am pissed that American citizens have gone 72 hours without food and water. What are you missing people. American citizens have gone without food and water for 3 days.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I may add, I'm also pissed that these same Americans are wallowing around in horribly toxified water and in several days or a week many will wish they had died of dehydration. Small lacerations will lead to gangrene, cholera will be rampant, mosquitos will breed bearing countless diseases only known to 3rd world countries in our lifetime.

By the way, none of this is a surprise. I posted a link to this article on Sunday night when someone wondered if the concern was all hype. Again, I don't know when this article was written, but it doesn't matter as this scenario has been contemplated for some time. Here's a little excerpt:

[ QUOTE ]
"Filling the bowl" is the worst potential scenario for a natural disaster in the United States, emergency officials say. The Red Cross' projected death toll dwarfs estimates of 14,000 dead from a major earthquake along the New Madrid, Mo., fault, and 4,500 dead from a similar catastrophic earthquake hitting San Francisco, the next two deadliest disasters on the agency's list.

The projected death and destruction eclipse almost any other natural disaster that people paid to think about catastrophes can dream up. And the risks are significant, especially over the long term. In a given year, for example, the corps says the risk of the lakefront levees being topped is less than 1 in 300. But over the life of a 30-year mortgage, statistically that risk approaches 9 percent.

In the past year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials have begun working with state and local agencies to devise plans on what to do if a Category 5 hurricane strikes New Orleans.

Shortly after he took office, FEMA Director Joe Allbaugh ordered aides to examine the nation's potential major catastrophes, including the New Orleans scenario.

"Catastrophic disasters are best defined in that they totally outstrip local and state resources, which is why the federal government needs to play a role," Allbaugh said. "There are a half-dozen or so contingencies around the nation that cause me great concern, and one of them is right there in your back yard."

[/ QUOTE ]

And despite countless articles and NOVA and PBS specials about this particular disaster scenario over the years, Our dear leader went on the Today Show this morning and said "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

edited to fix the movie link.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
And despite countless articles and NOVA and PBS specials about this particular disaster scenario over the years, Our dear leader went on the Today Show this morning and said "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]There are many more smoking guns to this particular piece of bullshit from Dear Leader. No major media outlets will cover it yet, but dailykos.com (although even there it's only found in the individual diaries) among other blogs are compiling a lot of stuff and it's just plain disgusting.

I guess the free market was supposed to save New Orleans.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who should be leading this effort? Probably the governor, right? But we have the FEMA people, director of homeland security, the mayor, the president, etc. making statements. Presumably they are all making decisions. Or not making decisions, which actually seems to be the case. Who do you think should take over?

[/ QUOTE ]

The state and the feds should be working in conjuction. State and local authorities supposedly gameplan for things like this. They pay universities millions to do studies, crunch numbers, do analysis, gameplan. Even my simple idea of placing National Guardsmen in NO before Katrina hit would solve many issues. I'm just Joe Six Pack and I was paid nothing but it just seems logical to me. We are talking about a city of hundreds of thousands that could become paralyzed should the levee system break. Let's show some leadership and have boots on the ground should the worst case scenario happen.

I've seen no leadership from the Mayor, the Governor, FEMA or Bush. Also, Bush is a fool for visiting the destruction zone tomorrow. That's just going to piss people off more. We don't need images of that clown hugging a black child tomorrow (btw, I'm black, FWIW). Stay in Washington and work on the problem and the solutions that are needed for the months ahead. In fact, if I was a NO citizen and I ran into Bush I'd ask him one question: Why did you slash the NO Corp of Engineers budget by 20% to $71M when we've been asking Washington for assistance for years to shore up our levee system? We spend $1B a day in Iraq but can't appropriate funds to protect American citizens and infrastructure.

Sorry to rant, and I know this is the wrong forum, but some of you need to take a step back because much of this could have been avoided with proper leadership from top to bottom.

Greg H.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who should be leading this effort? Probably the governor, right? But we have the FEMA people, director of homeland security, the mayor, the president, etc. making statements. Presumably they are all making decisions. Or not making decisions, which actually seems to be the case. Who do you think should take over?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've worked emergencies (7 forest fires and 1 oil spill). There is protocol. First responder is in charge... until someone comes along with higher status. So, yeah, right now it's the President. He's in charge and if you're mad about what's goiing on, it's our fuckhead president who's at fault.

They just keep saying they can't navigate because the phones are down and everything is in water. Well, people have been living in swamps and canals for thousands of years. Get a [censored] boat and figure it out.
And the phones? Hello??? short wave? CB? what the [censored] is going on?

Sorry this is so emotional. I'm mad as hell.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who should be leading this effort? Probably the governor, right? But we have the FEMA people, director of homeland security, the mayor, the president, etc. making statements. Presumably they are all making decisions. Or not making decisions, which actually seems to be the case. Who do you think should take over?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've worked emergencies (7 forest fires and 1 oil spill). There is protocol. First responder is in charge... until someone comes along with higher status. So, yeah, right now it's the President. He's in charge and if you're mad about what's goiing on, it's our fuckhead president who's at fault.

They just keep saying they can't navigate because the phones are down and everything is in water. Well, people have been living in swamps and canals for thousands of years. Get a [censored] boat and figure it out.
And the phones? Hello??? short wave? CB? what the [censored] is going on?

Sorry this is so emotional. I'm mad as hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole thing has been cluster [censored] from top to bottom. I don't even have the energy to outline the numerous obvious failures, let alone think about the gross negligence.

Put me in [censored] charge. I've studied the [censored] aerial photos. I'll have one end of that [censored] airstrip filled with off-loading C4's and the other with copters and boats making deliveries and moving people in a heartbeat.

These fucktards can't even drop MRE's for these people.

This is sad and I'm ashamed

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the free market was supposed to save New Orleans.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to the Ownership Society - If you don't own a car, you're [censored].

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
WTF is going on here. CNN just reported from the Astrodome that Houston police, on orders from the fire marshall, is not allowing anymore survivors in. The evacuees are distraught. I would snap if after the 7 hour drive I was told not to get off the bus.


[/ QUOTE ]

Houston is not in the disaster area. So are you saying we can just drive 7 hours outside the disaster area and impose ourselves on any place that we want?

You seem to presume that there are no other shelters.

You seem to presume that we can just ignore fire regualtions and other safety concerns.

You are just digging for an emotional response. But outside the disaster area, tossing out all input from safety officials is not the right thing to do, and limiting access to the Astrodome is a reasonable thing to do.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

The governor of Louisiana and the mayor of NO screwed up big time in the leadup and aftermath of the hurricane, and now it is left to the Feds to solve all problems.

FEMA will do the job. It is sick to blame federal officials when local officials screw up. But it is typical of the politically motivated activists.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

I've noticed that people are VERY quick to blame. The longer they stay in the disaster area, the more irrational their complaints are.

One guy shouted at a journalist "Why don't they turn the damn pumps back on!?!" Hmm, broken levee? Lack of electricity?
People are always raving about why there are no police or FEMA to help them. Maybe there are too many victims for them to handle? People are carjacking the ambulances.
People complaining about the dead bodies not being taken care of by the police. Maybe the police have more important things to do?
People on the forums are wondering why they don't take the abandoned school buses and get the refugees out. What about the flooded streets? Lack of gasoline? Stolen buses?

Gas is probably the biggest issue. You can't have the refugees follow a national guard soldier out of the city in a big congo line. They need gas to power their bullet hole ridden rescue vehicles.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can't have the refugees follow a national guard soldier out of the city in a big congo line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Y not?


http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/so...s/293_9397.jpg

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

I cant beleive some of the stuff thats we are hearing about in NO it just shows we are a couple of days away from becoming animals when disaster strikes, reports of murders and rapes at the sports field murders at the convention centre and then no food or water I cant beleive its happening in the US.

This Blog may be of interest.

Re: Evacuees being turned away from Houston\'s Astrodome
 

[ QUOTE ]
this whole situation is a huge clusterfuck.

[/ QUOTE ]