KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

I told myself a while ago, "I will never fold KK preflop at the 100NL level." This hand is from a week ago, I've been thinking about it a lot since.

I haven't seen anything today on the villain, but my notes indicate that he's a likely consistent winner. He is UTG+1, and has around $90.

HAND:
4th hand of my daily session, somewhere in LP with KK. I have $100.

UTG raises to $4. UTG+1 (Villain) calls. 1 more caller. I raise to $25 straight.

UTG folds, Villain reraises to $70, 1 fold, back to me.

WTF? This sure smells of Aces with the LRR, but why in the name of God wouldn't you reraise in such EP? Could it be AK/KK/QQ? Help...

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

Seems like a tough situation, but this is more of a judgemental decision. I wouldnt recommend folding kings here because there is enough level of doubt. AKs and QQ could be played like this by a player not too bright.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

Looks like he's trying 'second hand low' on you. It's from Cloutier's book where you just call the first raise hoping someone will reraise behind. When the action comes back around they repop and get you thinking, 'Wouldn't someone with AA have reraised before it got to me?'

I do it once in a blue moon and it's great move if somone at the table's steaming.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

good fold.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

At that time with villain being unknown people could say it was perhaps a too tight fold.

Now that you know he's a winning player, it is very unlikely he had anything other than Aces here (except for the rare possibility he also had Kings).

Its always a judgement call, but there are certain situations based on your reads when you know your kings are toast, particularly online where players tend to be fairly tight with the hands they push preflop.

That said, I highly doubt calling a preflop all in everytime this happened and you had pocket Kings would lose you much money.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I told myself a while ago, "I will never fold KK preflop at the 100NL level."

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

When this LRR happens, its always aces from my experience, if you've read skylansky's torunament poker then you will recall that he was disappointed in good players who were not able to fold kings in this situiaton in the WSOP.
Noah

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

Why does a good player re-raise to $70 when you have $100, hes better off cold calling the $25 and pushing the flop, that said, lrr could easily be aces.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why does a good player re-raise to $70 when you have $100, hes better off cold calling the $25 and pushing the flop, that said, lrr could easily be aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

becausue if his opponent is willing to call the 70 then hes just going to push it all in right there anyway. and thats exactly what villain wants. makes it opponent think he is taking the iniative by ptting villain all in perhaps

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

why r u making such a ridiculous raise pf? unknowns at party are getting called here, unknowns at stars i am folding to and asking myself why in the world did u put in 25bb with the intention of folding if reraised.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

no way in hell i fold, nice pfr too.

you will very often seen AK/ or random pp in this spot...push and get it over with.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

Easy, easy push.

If he has aces, make sure to river a king.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
When this LRR happens, its always aces from my experience, if you've read skylansky's torunament poker then you will recall that he was disappointed in good players who were not able to fold kings in this situiaton in the WSOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but this is NL full ring... you try to maximize EV here, and it's different then tournament poker, isn't it?

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
no way in hell i fold, nice pfr too.

you will very often seen AK/ or random pp in this spot...push and get it over with.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would only make this pf raise if i was trying to take down the pot pf with trash or say ak, even then i probably wouldnt make this raise, any bet on the flop is committing....in short this raise is to large with 100bb stacks imo. kk is a hand that can handle a lot of action, make a more tempered raise and play some poker past he flop. if op was oop i would like this more, but u are letting villains play correctly to easy with this enormous raise pf.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

its Aces, lay it down.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

I can't believe you're all saying fold here, I'm NEVER folding in this spot. You have all noticed that it's not the original raiser that's re-raising right?

I realize that it's a bad ass play if you think there's going to be a raise behind you, but honestly how often are UTG raises getting re-raised ??? I'll tell you - not very often.

It's far more likely he has some kind of medium pair and is making a steal. EZ push.

If he has aces good for him, but his hand range is a lot wider here.

EDIT: For the record, I'm not one of the usual "Never fold KK pre-flop"-people, but this is NOT the spot for these kind of laydowns.

Re: KK hand. I said I would never do this...
 

You'd have to be crazy to fold here. Villain has 88, so get it all in there!