Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

Upon further reflection, I realized I was too hasty in disagreeing with Hobbe's wife regarding whether guys who pretend to befriend girls, hoping to eventually have sex with them, are "snakes in the grass". My gut reaction to that statement was clouded by the knowledge that I had to do just that to produce a great all around moderator for these forums.

Actually in most cases she is right. In fact I know of at least one such case personally. He is inept with girls and thus resorts to this dishonest, sometimes successful ruse. And when he succeeds and moves on, the girl is pretty devastated.

But I can think of two types of exceptions. One is where the girl has it coming. Because she toys with nice man and sleeps with jerks as in the movie Of Human Bondage. Whether Hobbe's wife would admit that this is an exception, I don't know.

But I'm sure she would agree the second type of exception is OK. Namely when the guy really and truly likes her and is hoping for a serious relationship. He chooses the friends route only because nothing else works. And the fact is that he DOES want to be her friend, among other things. He gives up the friendship eventually if he can't get more, not because he doesn't feel friendly toward her but because it is too painful to deal with her every day on that basis. Given he actually likes the girl a lot more than the guys she is "seeing" (I love that euphamism), this last ditch "ploy is justified. Right Mrs. Hobbe's?

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

enough. this is getting creepy. go get a hooker pls.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

The second exception isn't really an expection at all because it's presented as him truely wanting to be her friend, not pretending.

My long time girlfriend and I worked together, we became friends, but I certainly wanted more, we started dating, and it didn't work out, she moved off to college.

We stopped talking for a while, it was way too painful for me, but then I realized I was better off having her as a friend then not having her in my life at all.

After a couple of years of a long distance friendship, she moved back after school, and we eventually (and accidently) started a very great relationship that is approaching 4 years...

This may just be a brag post, but I think I have a point.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

[ QUOTE ]
Upon further reflection, I realized I was too hasty in disagreeing with Hobbe's wife regarding whether guys who pretend to befriend girls, hoping to eventually have sex with them, are "snakes in the grass". My gut reaction to that statement was clouded by the knowledge that I had to do just that to produce a great all around moderator for these forums.


[/ QUOTE ]

30 Horribleness Points.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

Although I agree that you technique is good and valid. Certainly making a friend out of a woman is a good thing whether it works out or not. I was in "love" many many years ago with a woman who was 4 years older than I. She was 18 and I 14. I befrended her nothing more came of it romantically. 30 years later we are still good buddies. No harm and lots of good years as a result.

Your logic eludes me on the Mat example. I would not exist if it were not for slavery, cigarettes, and booze. Still I would not suggest using these as dating techniques.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

I never thought Skalansky would sound like a 13 year old boy listening to Self Esteem or I'm The One.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

My wife already thinks I'm a damned idiot for posting on this thread. You aren't helping my cause here any.

But in the interest of discussion, I'll run this one by her and suffer the inevitable eye rolling. Maybe I can talk her into posting in her own words.

By the way, I've never argued that my wife's opinion is the be all end all to matters of dating. She's just one woman. I only mentioned her opinion while pointing out that women are generally aware of the "friends" technique.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

David,

Your post here seem pretty much Machiavellian.* I think I’ll start calling you the Prince. Although, I am sure you would rather I called you the King. Since King isn’t appropriate to the context, you will have to suffer (in silence preferably - joking.) [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

RJT

* For those not aware of the allusion - Nicolo Machiavelli wrote “The Prince” back in the Renaissance era. Its main theme regarded "the end justifying the means".

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

Ok, I tried to get my wife to respond to this post, but she said she wasn't going to get sucked into my "insane world."

Anyway, I ran the two "exceptions" by her. In the first case, she argued that there is no sure way to know that a woman has led you on or played mind games with you unless you have made your intentions clear because there's always the possibility that she is taking your friendliness at face value and is clueless to the fact that you have a thing for her. It is, therefore, unethical to take advantage of your relationship with her.

I agree, and argued this point earlier.

The second case she views as entrapment, pure and simple. If a man has feelings for a woman, there's no better time than the present to make those feelings known.

I would add that waiting two months while trying to ratchet up a woman's emotional attachment to you, only to then hold it over her head as punishment for rejecting your advances is not an act of friendship.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

Hi Hobbes,

I didn't want to do this, because it makes me look bad, and frankly, its no one's business, but I really feel that people are overlooking Sklansky's insight into this matter.

Anyway, here goes:

A few days ago I had a girl over. I've known here for almost two years. I made a move on her, and she shot me down, because she's with another guy right now. I said thats ok, and I understand that she doesn't want to be with me, but I also explained that I can't be friends with her.

I didn't try to make her feel guilty, and I didn't try to make her feel sorry for me. We said our goodbyes. Two days later she calls me, and she's all over me. She says she wants to break up with her boyfriend for me. I explained that I can't be her boyfriend, and she shouldn't leave the guy she's with for me. Then she said that she at least wants to see me on the side.

Thats right; she went from shooting me down to BEGGING for either a relationship or sex. I wasn't even nice to her when she called. She said a couple of rude things, and I hung up on her. She called back and begged for more. The situation is totally nuts, but completely true.

The point is to win. Sklansky understands this, why can't you?

Best,
Snowball

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

Snowball are you sandbagging?

Anyway isn't it kind of like leading her on to try to get in her panties and then tell her no when it turns out she really wants you? Maybe you only like the forbidden fruit.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

[ QUOTE ]
The point is to win. Sklansky understands this, why can't you?

Best,
Snowball

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If you had no respect for her and were just looking for sex with a hot chick then I might agree.

Because you have argued that your feelings for her are legitimate, then I don't think winning at all costs can be justified. Maybe that's counterintuitive to you, but the way I see it is that the more you care about someone the more obligation you have to avoid hurting her.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

Hi Hobbes,

You've gone from giving advice to preaching your own narrow view of morality. Its hard to for me to see why your views on this subject are valuable.

For the record, I think the girl in my class is a fantastic person in a lot of ways, and I would plan to be very good to her. I also think that she'd be happy with me. I'm very honest in relationships, just not necessarily in the beginning.

Thanks,
Snowball

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

"but the way I see it is that the more you care about someone the more obligation you have to avoid hurting her."

That statement focuses on an important issue. Suppose a women chooses to have sex with Bob but not Fred. Even though she likes Fred better, would donate a kidney to save Fred but not Bob, and is not physically attracted to Fred solely because he treats her a little too well. In other words she gets turned on by mistreatment. Yet she won't admit it. Fred is supposed to just accept that without trying some counterstrategies?

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

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You've gone from giving advice to preaching your own narrow view of morality. Its hard to for me to see why your views on this subject are valuable.


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Yes, since this discussion makes you uncomfortable the best tactic is to accuse me of being "narrow." Of course only a tight-assed Jesus humper would ever think that deceiving a friend might be outside the bounds of proper personal ethics!

I must be one of those religious nuts trying to impose his views on others. You betcha.

It's really quite simple for me. If I sat down to play cards with a bunch of shady slimeballs who wouldn't hesitate to steal everything I owned, then I might feel justified in cheating them out of their money.

But if I sat down to play poker with a bunch of my friends, I would never think to break the agreed upon rules. They're my FRIENDS, see?

You're convinced that if this girl falls for your trap then it's justified because you'll be good for her. I say that's presumptuous nonsense. I may be convinced that a particular stock is a great investment, but I wouldn't steal a friend's money and invest it for his own good.

But, you know, that's just my own narrow view of morality. Gotta run now; there are heathens out there to convert. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

Hobbes, Im gonna have to call bs. You're telling me that... fully armed with the knowledge that 99% of women (including this one) play games, you think it's unethical to do so?

Isn't that a wee bit confusing? We're supposed to stick to our ethical guns for a woman who doesnt? At this rate, you're gonna have to date a nun.... and they dont date.

Oh well, at least snowball's hand wont play games.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

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Hobbes, Im gonna have to call bs. You're telling me that... fully armed with the knowledge that 99% of women (including this one) play games, you think it's unethical to do so?


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I don't agree with your assertion that almost all women play games. In fact, I think the majority don't.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

I think it depends on what you call games, but if that is your position coming into all this, then I cant fault a single thing you say.

nh.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

An entire thread could be dedicated to nailing down what constitutes playing games, so it's quite possible that different people are operating under different assumptions.

I wouldn't be so quick to impute bad faith on a woman that seems to be playing games with you. Usually, they're just not interested. Of course, if you're running the "friend" angle things can get confusing. A woman may suspect that you might want to be more than friends, but really values your friendship and so just sort of plays dumb and hopes that she was wrong or maybe you'll find someone else.

Is this bad faith on her part? Hard to say. There's certainly selfish interest involved, but then again YOU put her in this awkward position.

And I'd like to make clear that there is a substantial percentage of the female population that does play games. I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen, just that it doesn't happen as often as you might believe.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

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That site rules. The fact that he links to Chomsky rules even more.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

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enough. this is getting creepy. go get a hooker pls.

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NH sir, hookers are +EV....if they're hot and not "too" cheap.

Re: Hobbes\'s Wife Would Make An Exception for Snoball138
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
enough. this is getting creepy. go get a hooker pls.

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NH sir, hookers are +EV....if they're hot and not "too" cheap.

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I wonder if he can get one with Sklansky bucks ...