10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

Don't know too much about villain in this hand. But he seems like your average TAG. Stick it in on the turn? Stick it in on the river? Smoothcall river?

Thanks,
-Ace


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($2000)
UTG+1 ($1614)
UTG+2 ($2500)
MP1 ($3293)
Hero ($1880)
MP3 ($4370.50)
CO ($2194)
Button ($3814)
SB ($1980)
BB ($428.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
UTG calls $20, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $20, MP3 calls $20, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($100) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: ($100) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $150</font>, MP3 folds, SB folds, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $350</font>, Hero calls $200.

River: ($800) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $500</font>, Hero ????

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

raise more on turn, call reraise. I like a river shove.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

raise to 240 ish on turn. push river. he could have a missed limp re-raise AA or KK but ur ahead most of the time.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

call river or fold turn
edit: oops I guess the question is whehter to shove or not. I think I like calling river here...it's unlikely a TAG is 3-betting a naked ace on turn...you're only hope is that he has AK.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

Reraise his raise on the turn.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

Since you say he is TAG, his 3-betting range is pretty narrow on the turn: Specifically, he probably needs Aces up or better.

AA/KK/33: These would coincide with the PF action (33 would depend on the table). Is he really not leading the flop with a set on an A high board, though?
AK: Seems possible.
A7, A3: Not if he's really TAG.
Ax: Seems possible... but the 3-bet on the turn makes these very unlikely.
A bluff: Given the action, I think this would be a decent spot to try one, on the turn, but he probably gives up on river.

His river bet sure looks a lot like a value bet.

If you push the river, the only hand he calls you with that you're ahead of is probably AK, and he may fold that.

If you think there's a chance that he gets to this point with worse than AK (a weird AQ?) , then you can push and make him think you're trying to move him off a chop, but this looks like a call, to me.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

If you're gonna call, might as well shove it, there is no hand that he is betting with like this that doesnt call a river push.
If you're not gonna push, dump it.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

seems like an easy push to me on river no?

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

there's nothing to put him on and you beat 3s full
push
if he cased you that sucks

edit.

on second thought, if there's a donk in close proximity to his left he may have been trying to LRR, hit top/2nd set and seen no reason to bet out decimated hands and is now valuebetting you to death

or he could have 33. A3? K3? unlikely.

is this foldable?

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

Am I the only one who thinks this looks like aces and a missed limpreraise preflop from UTG?

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks this looks like aces and a missed limpreraise preflop from UTG?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see why else Ace would post this other than being worried about AA/KK missed limp-reraise.

I should probably avoid commenting on 10-handed hands, because I really don't know anything about preflop play. In 6-max I push the river for sure.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stick it in on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
hell no.

[ QUOTE ]
Stick it in on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
hell no.

[ QUOTE ]
Smoothcall river?

[/ QUOTE ]
i guess.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

uh.. no. OP is obviously afraid of this as well, as are several posters before you.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

i cant believe this many people (or anyone) is advocating a river push.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks this looks like aces and a missed limpreraise preflop from UTG?

[/ QUOTE ]

He had to have both missed his limp-reraise AND whiffed on a check raised flop for this to be true. Talk about FPS here...

I'd pay off his river bet and, one can only assume, the only reason this is being posted is because you ended up paying off his river bet as well. If so, good play.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

Right.. but you're paying off his river bet instead of raising?

If you think it's so unlikely, why not push river?

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

I've gotten too accustomed to the "If he has a set, pay him off" line of thinking and stuck my stack in the river... even though I thought his line looked more like AA than anything. I think a fold here is almost acceptable on the river but a smoothcall is more appropriate. I thought "Well, he could have AA or KK, but he can also have AK... so just in case, I will stick it in." Part of me felt that he had AA but I still stuck it in anyways, thinking maybe in the long run this play is profitable as there are more combinations of AK. I think this hand is fairly easy to put exactly on AA and possibly even KK. Thanks for all the good response,
-Ace

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

checking that flop with a set of aces or kings with no action preflop is the only sane thing to do not FPS.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

I would lead out every time, ESPECIALLY with KK.

Villian got very lucky that hero hit his 2 "outer".

What second best hand are we looking for the field to improve to?

What do you do when a broadway card hits and MP player raises your turn bet?

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've gotten too accustomed to the "If he has a set, pay him off" line of thinking and stuck my stack in the river... even though I thought his line looked more like AA than anything. I think a fold here is almost acceptable on the river but a smoothcall is more appropriate. I thought "Well, he could have AA or KK, but he can also have AK... so just in case, I will stick it in." Part of me felt that he had AA but I still stuck it in anyways, thinking maybe in the long run this play is profitable as there are more combinations of AK. I think this hand is fairly easy to put exactly on AA and possibly even KK. Thanks for all the good response,
-Ace

[/ QUOTE ]

16 AK's, 12 AA/KK, 1 33 sure, but now that we know we're facing either the very unlikely quads or the much more likely "missed a limp reraise preflop hand" you have to weight the probaiblities to account for the fact that AK does this less often than AA or KK, and then AK is less likely to put in such a small turn reraise. Add to that that AK doesn't always payoff and I think it is a clear call.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
9 AK's, 6 AA/KK, 1 33 sure

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

I almost never lead out with aces here since there are so few holdnings that calls a bet in my games.

- KK is a whole different story though.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

Nevermind. Smooth call, maybe fold.

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I almost never lead out with aces here since there are so few holdnings that calls a bet in my games.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about QJ, JT, QT, 54 hands? They may not call a bet, but they might bust you when they hit.

You just hoping somebody bluffs?

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

I almost never lead out with aces here since there are so few holdnings that calls a bet in my games.

With four opponents in an unraised pot? I can think of a lot of hands that will play along. AA is asking to get killed doing this. What's he hoping for...someone to hit their set with a pp or catch some sort of garbage two pair to play along with him? Sure it'll happen sometimes, but more often than that someone else will hit some screwball broadway and stack him off.

Lotta hands can continue on to a flop bet there, not to mention the fact that there is in fact still an Ace somewhere in the deck...

...or, you know, someone else's hand...

- C -

Re: 10/20: 77 turns set in unraised multi-way pot
 

I think this hand smells alot like a missed opportunity of a limp UTG reraise with AA or KK. I would still call turn and then call river. There is no reason to push this river as the line the Villian took screams of a monster.