QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

So my first table has Zeejustin across the table from me. I know of him but frankly have no idea how he plays. I assume fairly tight and fairly aggressive.

On to the hand. Again, 2nd hand of the tourney so stacks are all ~1000, blinds 10/15. UTG raises to 45. I'm next to act with QQ and decide to just call. I would usually reraise here, I'm not entirely sure why I just called, but I did. Folded to Zeejustin in the cutoff who reraises to 145. UTG calls, what's the plan?

Steve

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

Call, flop a queen and bust them both.

Just try and come up with a better plan than that.

Will

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

Hero pushes.

It's dangerous for UTG to slowplay AA/KK with 3 players in the pot OOP. Zee might be raising with position with alot of speculative holdings. there's T300 in the pot, 30% of your stack, I'd go get it.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

Push. UTG raiser is unlikely to have QQ beat, since he didn't put in a 3rd raise. Your push as caller seems strange (although Zeejustin would be aware you could be playing 2nd hand low with AA), so you might get a loose call. The play in the 1st round is fairly loose, so even a good player doesn't need a big pair to reraise.

There is a good chance a push will pick up the pot for a 315 chip gain. You are going to have to run into a bigger pair an awful lot to make up for that.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

I like calling and taking a flop, for two reasons. One, I don't think ZJ would call an all-in preflop with a hand you have crushed, like JJ/TT/99. And two, blinds are small and you will still be in great shape if you fold on a flop with an ace or king (36%).

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

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I like calling and taking a flop, for two reasons. One, I don't think ZJ would call an all-in preflop with a hand you have crushed, like JJ/TT/99. And two, blinds are small and you will still be in great shape if you fold on a flop with an ace or king (36%).

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Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

This is a no brainer. ZJ could have anything from AK, AQ, AJ or more likely medium pair and wanted everyone to fold pre flop with 150 raise. Reraise to 450 and see or push all in and be done with it. I'd like to know what ZJ had if you had the chance to see it.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

I think push is awesome here given how hero played it thus far (call utg raise than push over) it will often be viewed as small~med pocket pair, maybe AK/AQ and you will get call from justin if he has 99~JJ for sure. I'd much prefer this line over playing QQ oop vs player like ZJ.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

I push. t300 is a lot of chips.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

I think pushing is bad, very bad.

No way he has AQ/AJ here.

What you think ZJ has? Im putting it heavy on AA/KK vs a utg raiser, and ep caller...

I call, and hope for a Q high flop, and stacking him, but fold otherwise on the flop. It gets interesting when the the flop is KQ3 or AQ3 though.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

I think its a push, good fold equity and you could get a call from utg with a lower pair as its party [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Results
 

First plan was to reraise and fold to a push, but I just don't have enough chips to do that. I pushed, ZJ called after a couple seconds and his aces held up. I was really hoping to at least get to say I finished in last place in the tournament but I wasn't even close (1109/1121). Oh well, try harder next time I guess.

Steve

Re: Results
 

Saw this coming a mile away. QQ early in tourney is a 'piece of cheese' (T.J) against a raise like that coming from a solid player. Too much wishful thinking in this thread.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

Pushing seems like the worst possible move here. Is ZJ loose enough to where he's re-raising AK/AQ/AJ/JJ/TT/99 in the second hand of the tourney, with position, against an UTG raiser and a good solid caller? The fact that he's in position makes it even more likely he has a good hand. Why would he want to break his chances at winning a huge pot with JJ-99 by re-raising and seeing UTG push allin over the top?

The advice in this thread is shockingly bad. I don't know how ZJ plays, but if he is at all sane, he has AA-QQ/AK, with heavy weight given to AA-KK.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

Very good post, well thought out. I would have folded probably.

Re: Results
 

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I pushed, ZJ called after a couple seconds and his aces held up.

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Gotta love the AA slowroll.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

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Very good post, well thought out. I would have folded probably.

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Folding can't be right. There's about 350 in there now and if you're that sure ZJ has aces/kings, then you will (99% of the time) stack him (and/or the other guy) when you flop a queen.

Steve

P.S. If you think you won't stack him when you flop a set and he flops an overpair then just call and play it like you would a set unless an A/K flops.

Re: Results
 

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I pushed, ZJ called after a couple seconds and his aces held up.

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Gotta love the AA slowroll.

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I had no problem with it, there was another guy still to act so he may be trying to convince him to call too.

Steve

Re: Results
 

Oh yea, good point.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

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Pushing seems like the worst possible move here. Is ZJ loose enough to where he's re-raising AK/AQ/AJ/JJ/TT/99 in the second hand of the tourney, with position, against an UTG raiser and a good solid caller? The fact that he's in position makes it even more likely he has a good hand.


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I don't know how loose he is but I assume he's quite aggressive. He also will know that there's a lot of loose play early in these, so he doesn't necessarily need AA/KK/AK.

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Why would he want to break his chances at winning a huge pot with JJ-99 by re-raising and seeing UTG push allin over the top?

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It avoids a potentially very difficult decision in pots where he flops an overpair, he thinks he has the best hand, he may get a better hand to fold later (eg TT/JJ on an A or K high flop). I don't know but aren't those all possible?

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The advice in this thread is shockingly bad. I don't know how ZJ plays, but if he is at all sane, he has AA-QQ/AK, with heavy weight given to AA-KK.

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Note that I'm only a 1.5-1 underdog vs AA-KK, AK and I'm getting 1.27-1, so even if that is his entire range it's not THAT bad. ChipEV = 2/5*1230 + 3/5*(-955) = -81.
If he folds AK to my push, then 16 times I win 375 (145+145+45+15+10) and 12 times he calls with AA/KK. Of those 12, I win 1230 chips ~2.2 times and lose 955 chips ~9.8 times. So chipEV = 16/28*375 + 2.2/28*1230 - 9.8/28*955 = -21. This range seems like the worst case scenario to me. If you add anymore hands, the push is profitable. (That's not to say it's the best play).

Steve

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

Why can't ZJ be running a standard squeeze play?

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

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I think its a push, good fold equity and you could get a call from utg with a lower pair as its party [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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When I pushed I was kind of hoping ZJ would fold and UTG would call with his AJ or 66 or whatever [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Steve

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

I agree with DonButtons here and just calling.

Folding (short of some sort insane read) I don't think really comes into question.

As for pushing, I don't think it's a good move. You have an under the gun raise, so the button knows there is some strength here, so reraising in my mind represents a very strong hand.

Then there is also the fact that it is the second hand of the tournament (from my understanding), so if you push I can only imagine you encountering AA, KK, QQ or MAYBE AK (if you're dealing with a big gambler). So you have two situations where you're dominated, one where it's a race, and another where it's probably going to be a split.

Again, I agree with DonButtons, call and hope for a nice flop with a Q. If the flop comes all rags, things are probably going to get even more interesting...

Re: Results
 

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Saw this coming a mile away. QQ early in tourney is a 'piece of cheese' (T.J) against a raise like that coming from a solid player. Too much wishful thinking in this thread.

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It's the second hand of the tournament, ZeeJustin isn't running a squeeze play against two random idiots and this is the easiest call preflop/check/fold flop ever. Wishful thinking doesn't begin to cover it.

Re: Results
 

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I pushed, ZJ called after a couple seconds and his aces held up.

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Gotta love the AA slowroll.

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I had no problem with it, there was another guy still to act so he may be trying to convince him to call too.

Steve

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or he was 22-tabling.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

Uh, since when does a "good aggressive player" reraise AJ to an utg raise and call? He has a very strong hand here every time I think, and I like calling and taking a flop, and deciding where to go from there. If it comes 3 rags and he puts in a big bet, just fold. If you think it is a weak cont. bet from AK, check raise all in-- although id need a pretty strong read on his bet size to make that decision. Usually I'm just check/folding here. If you flop a set, well... thats a no brainer.

Re: QQ vs Zeejustin - 2nd hand of Party Super Tuesday
 

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Uh, since when does a "good aggressive player" reraise AJ to an utg raise and call? He has a very strong hand here every time I think, and I like calling and taking a flop, and deciding where to go from there. If it comes 3 rags and he puts in a big bet, just fold. If you think it is a weak cont. bet from AK, check raise all in-- although id need a pretty strong read on his bet size to make that decision. Usually I'm just check/folding here. If you flop a set, well... thats a no brainer.

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Thanks for the advice, I'm beginning to come around to just calling with the intention of not committing many (if any) more chips unless I flop a set.

Just to clarify, the AJ comment was talking about the UTG player, who I wasn't worried about at all...At the time, I thought ZJ's range was probably something along the lines of AA-JJ, AK and maybe TT or AQ. In retrospect, this might have been somewhat wishful thinkinig.

Steve