NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

No reads, Villian just got to the table.


Hero ~230, Villian ~50

Hero raises to 3 with KK, Villian calls in the bb,

Tc, 4s, 5h
Villian checks, Hero bets 5, Villian calls.


Turm 2s
Villian checks, Hero Checks

River: Qc
Villian pushes for 38.56, Hero?

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

Meh, I'd probably call. This looks too much like BS to me.

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

Ya, I'd also call. Why would he make a gross overbet when he haven't showed much strength? I think he is really praying you fold, putting you on AK, something like that. If I'm villain and I have a set here, I'm betting it for value, not 38.56 into a 15 or so.

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No reads, Villian just got to the table.


Hero ~230, Villian ~50

Hero raises to 3 with KK, Villian calls in the bb,

Tc, 4s, 5h
Villian checks, Hero bets 5, Villian calls.


Turm 2s
Villian checks, Hero Checks

River: Qc
Villian pushes for 38.56, Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very common scenario for me, miss the turn checkraise and then face all in on river. On NL 25 Q 10 is the hand that destroys most of my AA KK hands.
Maybe its stupid to go for turn checkraise if it induces this kind of ugly rivers.

What do u guys think about the turnplay in given hand? Is it better to lead out?

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

I fold. QTo just kicked your ass. Also, why did you check the turn?

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

QT seems a bit unlikely for a call of a pf raise in the big blind, although possible. I'd also expect that hand to lead or c/r the flop to see where it was at. I wouldn't be surprised if he had AQ here though - calls a pf raise, calls the probable c-bet with unimproved overs, checks the turn and then shoves it in when he hits.

I'd call, although it's very marginal, mainly because you showed weakness on the turn and the all in looks like it doesn't want to be called.

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

Pot flop, check turn, call/raise river is the standard around here with overpairs.

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

Bet that turn. That 2 didn't help anybody. Force villain to make a mistake. If you think you are beat, check behind on the river I would value bet it unimproved 100% of the time).

As played, if you check the turn you have to call a safe river card. Villain could have anything from a badly misplayed set to a missed draw.

Results/Thoughts/a question
 

I folded and here's why:

I don't get why no one is concerned about him flopping a set. This is the exact line people take who have 1010,44,55. Of course the 2 didn't help him, but if I lead the turn and he c/raises me, then I'm still not sure if I'm behind. In other words, I'm controlling the pot (or trying to at least) so that I make my life easy while confusing him. However, this assumes that he'll bet the pot or value bet the river, rather than push. What worse hands is he pushing with hoping to get me to fold? He just joined the table, he doesn't have a read on me; how does he know he has any FE whatsoever?

I've just been experimenting with this lately. Just to add a little more reasoning:

I play TPTK hands the exact same way. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is good for shania. The reason being, I play flopped sets the same way sometimes, bluffs, 2 pair the same way, and thus, my opponents can't narrow my range that well. Do you all think that I'm missing value here? Is this a dumb experiment? Obviously the "it depends" is going to be an initial reaction, but just look at it as a general theory.

Lastly, I raise many hands preflop once I get a stack of 2+ buy-ins, and I make lots of continuation bets. So, that is part of the reason I've been experimenting with this.

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I folded and here's why:

I don't get why no one is concerned about him flopping a set. This is the exact line people take who have 1010,44,55.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you put him on a set after he just calls your flop bet? AT would call as would 67. Bet the turn, I have seen few villains capable of check-raising a turn with air at these levels (I should qualify that aren't complete idiots) and if they do you will be able to trap them later.

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

Maybe it's just small sample size, but the vast majority of the times that I call bets like this, I lose. Especially with overpairs. Extra-especially when I have a big stack (this is because one of my larger leaks right now is that I'm too lose with a large stack).

Anyone wanna teach me how to ask pokertracker to list only the hands where I call big bets on the river with one pair?

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

I think AT is more likely to raise me on the flop or lead out, than a set on this particular flop.

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

I think you will see a missed straight draw here a lot. If he had a set, why would he push into weakness?

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

My experience here has been rather mixed, and barring a read, I haven't been able to come up with a good plan of action. It seems to me pushes like this could well be bluffs with air, AT or maybe AQ. However, all too often in my experience, people seem to make this play with flopped TP killers and on this board, I would probably call it a set. People tend to have this disgusting fascination with slowplaying until the river, regardless of what is showing on the board.

For this reason, my preferred line with TP/overpairs is to bet flop and turn, draw or no draw, to extract value when all my opponent is doing is calling, but then checking behind on the river to kill an attempt at a checkraise. I've just seen way too many people push the instant they hit strength to automatically call this a bluff. I've seen someone push a 175BB stack at a 7BB pot when he rivered a set.

Pushing into weakness seems like a stupid play to us because we think about what our opponent has. Too many players don't do that and instead only think they flopped a set; they play the hand on autopilot.

Re: NL 50 6 max easy fold?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet that turn. That 2 didn't help anybody. Force villain to make a mistake. If you think you are beat, check behind on the river I would value bet it unimproved 100% of the time).



[/ QUOTE ]
The check behind is standard. Call in a heartbeat.

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

Your line is certainly a fine one. But (right now at least) I think that my line gives me more options and is great for shania.

If you bet the flop, bet the turn every time and then check behind the river with your TPTK or overpair type hands, then an observant opponent can exploit this. For every time you bet this river it means you have better than TPTK which makes his decision much easier. Plus if he has a set and you bet the flop, bet the turn, it's an easy c/c, c/r for him which puts you in a difficult decision.

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your line is certainly a fine one. But (right now at least) I think that my line gives me more options and is great for shania.

If you bet the flop, bet the turn every time and then check behind the river with your TPTK or overpair type hands, then an observant opponent can exploit this. For every time you bet this river it means you have better than TPTK which makes his decision much easier. Plus if he has a set and you bet the flop, bet the turn, it's an easy c/c, c/r for him which puts you in a difficult decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

i find it kind of funny that you're worrying about "observant opponents" at $50 NL. if an observant opponent can read you, you're going to lose value from < 5% of players.

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

Well, normally i play NL200 n NL400, but i'm trying stuff out. if you can figure out your leaks at lower stakes this let's you move up stakes more quickly. if you base your strategies around being able to beat the lower stakes, then how do you expect to ever become good enough to one day be playing nl1000.

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, normally i play NL200 n NL400, but i'm trying stuff out. if you can figure out your leaks at lower stakes this let's you move up stakes more quickly. if you base your strategies around being able to beat the lower stakes, then how do you expect to ever become good enough to one day be playing nl1000.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the other hand, what is optimal at NL200+ will not be optimal at NL50, and may even be losing play, eg bluffing into probable calling stations.

Re: Results/Thoughts/a question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, normally i play NL200 n NL400, but i'm trying stuff out. if you can figure out your leaks at lower stakes this let's you move up stakes more quickly. if you base your strategies around being able to beat the lower stakes, then how do you expect to ever become good enough to one day be playing nl1000.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok if you can "fool yourself" into pretending you're playing a different game than you are and this will help you later, go ahead.

to answer your question, you make adjustments and try to play every level as best you can.