man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

or is this just right? guy seems loose/passive from the 30 or so HU hands ive played with him. likes to chase, likes to see if youre bluffing, generally the guy you can really value bet against.

his limp/rr basically screams monster at me, though, but i cant see what he calls on the river that i beat. turn bet look ok or would that just be spewing?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (2 handed) converter

BB ($260.75)
Hero ($265.95)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
BB calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $21</font>, Hero calls $13.

Flop: ($41) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $22</font>, Hero calls $22.

Turn: ($85) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($85) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Seems like he either wants you to bet his overpair for him, or he got sick of your aggression and began randomly spewing chips and then gave up.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

I would really think about folding preflop. After the flop he looks like he have AK, I would play it the same as I really dont see any worst hand calling you there. But as you said you never know, I would be tempted by a 1/3 - 1/2 pot bet on the river for him to call with a small pair with a hand he was trying to make a move preflop.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

I'm definately firing on the turn. At least 1/2 pot if not more.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

I like to bet turn or river. I think river may be better, the check behind could be deceptive. Villian doesn't check a hand that's beating you here, river bet like 50 I think is good.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

I agree you probably have the best hand, but that does not really mean a bet is mandatory as no better hands are folding and very few, if any, worse hands are calling (maybe a middling pocket pair).

I do often bet in these spots simply for metagame reasons. I want my opponents to think I am aggressive and a tough opponent and I don't like to show my cards, but those things might lose importance if you get check-raised. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Those few hands make the difference. No better hands are folding here because no better hands check both the turn and the river. You're not up against a better hand here, so a bet is good. I get called by AK here, as well as a lot of pairs.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

[ QUOTE ]
Those few hands make the difference. No better hands are folding here because no better hands check both the turn and the river. You're not up against a better hand here, so a bet is good. I get called by AK here, as well as a lot of pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive never had AK look me up here, at best youll occasionally get a middle pair. I say attack the weakness and go after him on the turn with 2/3rd pot bet.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ive never had AK look me up here, at best youll occasionally get a middle pair. I say attack the weakness and go after him on the turn with 2/3rd pot bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This will get you in serious trouble more often than not, and given that we are seriously WA/WB here (villain drawing to 2-3 outs most likely, hero drawing to 2-5 or dead), a check is easy.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

basically a turn bet is out of the question, he can def check-raise here with AA-JJ. once he checks the river again though, i can't really see him having a hand i beat, yet i cant really see him calling with any hand i beat either - and i save myself the trouble of folding to a check-raise from the times he really decides to "slowplay" AA/KK.

anyways he had AK, and im still not sure about a river bet. also pre-flop call is probably marginal too, but im a sucker that way.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

You played it fine.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

I definitely check turn, river is more difficult.
If you bet, no better hand is going to fold so you need to be sure that if you are called or raised, you have the best hand over 50% of the time.
Since it appears he either missed completely or is slowplaying, I check behind on river unless your read is that he calls too much and will often look you up with a weak hand.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Why do so many think your way behind or way ahead and no worse hands will call? A vast majority of players out there are idiots with only a "tv" poker education.

Here's a perfect example. Go figure out this hand: whats this guy got?

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Not betting this hand again at some point is giving money away as far as i'm concerned. You're heads up and TPTK doesn't come around that often. The check on the turn is fine (because it is likely to induce action on the river). BET THE RIVER!!!!!!!

And for those of you who say AK will never look you up. You would be wrong

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

i like a river bet. nothing that can beat TPTK checks to you twice.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

[ QUOTE ]
i like a river bet. nothing that can beat TPTK checks to you twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

What checks to him twice that calls a river bet that he beats? I'm having a hard time thinking of anything.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i like a river bet. nothing that can beat TPTK checks to you twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

What checks to him twice that calls a river bet that he beats? I'm having a hard time thinking of anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer a turn bet over a river bet.

I'm probably only betting this turn 30% of the time.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Value bet river. Maybe he calls 35 bucks with Slick figuring you for AQ or 88.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i like a river bet. nothing that can beat TPTK checks to you twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

What checks to him twice that calls a river bet that he beats? I'm having a hard time thinking of anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

How bout K10s, Q10s? How many times have we seen a draw bet the flop hoping to steal the pot....only to call when they pair the river at less than top pair? Hell even top pair!!..

Go figure out the very simple hand I linked in this thread and tell me whether the OP left money on the table or not in this one.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

[ QUOTE ]
likes to chase, likes to see if youre bluffing, generally the guy you can really value bet against.

BB checks, Hero checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this case, more likely you can bet the turn, get him to fish with a worse hand. This guy doens't look you up on the river with a "expert" read. He also won't bluff you off the best hand, so if you bet on the turn, and he cr big you can fold with no worry.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Wow, you gotta value bet this river, who the hell hes know what he has but you are ahead.

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Value betting the river seems very reasonable after checking the turn...

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Those few hands make the difference. No better hands are folding here because no better hands check both the turn and the river. You're not up against a better hand here, so a bet is good. I get called by AK here, as well as a lot of pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive never had AK look me up here, at best youll occasionally get a middle pair. I say attack the weakness and go after him on the turn with 2/3rd pot bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand made me think of this exact thread and this post.

I just played this hand a few minutes ago on stars. I think it was a super easy call on the river. Do you see why? I decided on the turn I was calling his bet if he made it on the river with a junk river card.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (8 handed) converter

Hero ($202.60)
MP2 ($1185.95)
CO ($438.60)
Button ($500.90)
SB ($181.30)
BB ($405.40)
UTG ($1272.80)
UTG+1 ($639.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $12, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $10, BB calls $8.

Flop: ($48) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($48) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

River: ($48) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $36</font>, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls $36.

Final Pot: $120

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Ks Ad (one pair, fives).
CO has Ts Js (one pair, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins $120. </font>

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Wow, my first instinct was to raise villain's flop bet, as we are likely ahead, we want to make him pay for any draw (including overcards), and we'll find out quick if he has an overpair and we can release. I understand WA/WB, and if called I'm probably not putting any more in, but I'd rather put the additional $30-50 in at the flop than wind up calling his potential overpair value bets all the way down and losing more.

But I suck at shorthanded and notice *no one* else recommended a flop raise. I would be grateful for a rebuttal. Am I hopelessly misguided here?

Re: man i feel like i gotta bet/raise SOMEWHERE here
 

Bet 55 or so in the turn. As played definitely bet 1/2 pot or so on the river.