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-   -   The "mystery" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think) (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=329833)

Uglyowl 09-04-2005 11:11 PM

The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
It's Paradise Poker.. shocked me!

http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...icle310393.ece


PartyGaming, the newly floated £6bn online gaming group, will face pressure this week to reveal whether it plans to spark an £800m-plus takeover battle with a rival offer for Empire Online, the internet poker operator.

Sportingbet, which operates the Paradise Poker.com site, will this morning confirm that it was the mystery suitor behind a £790m cash-and-shares approach to Empire on Friday.

Although PartyGaming and Empire have a close relationship - Empire is a marketing company that drives punters on to other gaming sites - insiders at the world's biggest internet gaming group played down the significance of that commercial partnership.

Just 3 per cent of PartyGaming's total revenues are generated by Empire, according to the group's listing prospectus. By contrast, Empire's biggest partner by far is PartyGaming. The marketing specialist, known as a "skin" in the gaming industry because its EmpirePoker.com site wraps itself around its rivals' technology, makes money by getting a share of the winnings from each customer it drives onto PartyGaming's software.

Sportingbet, a direct rival of PartyGaming, is keen to acquire Empire to rob its biggest competitor of the stream of new customers Empire puts its way. Internet poker sites rely on having a liquid pool of high-rolling users so that anyone looking to join a game can do so immediately.

PartyGaming's chief executive, Richard Segal, will be pressed to confirm whether the group intends to show its hand when he reports the company's maiden interim results tomorrow. Earnings before interest and tax profits are expected to be about $245.5m (£133m) on sales of $440m.

Since Empire Online listed on AIM three months ago, poker fever has swept the City. PartyGaming is set to join the FTSE 100 this week with a higher market valuation than stalwarts such as Marks & Spencer. 888.com, the world's largest online casino by number of visitors, launched a £700m initial public offering last week.

With much of the highly fragmented industry still in private hands, internet casino operators are keen to have a public quoting to raise their profile and enough cash to mount an acquisition spree. Empire's admission that it had received a takeover approach so soon after listing triggered a sharp rise in the sector.

Sportingbet, which had net cash of £19m in June, made a small bolt-on acquisition last month, while Empire made two. All three companies declined to comment.

PartyGaming, the newly floated £6bn online gaming group, will face pressure this week to reveal whether it plans to spark an £800m-plus takeover battle with a rival offer for Empire Online, the internet poker operator.

Sportingbet, which operates the Paradise Poker.com site, will this morning confirm that it was the mystery suitor behind a £790m cash-and-shares approach to Empire on Friday.

Although PartyGaming and Empire have a close relationship - Empire is a marketing company that drives punters on to other gaming sites - insiders at the world's biggest internet gaming group played down the significance of that commercial partnership.

Just 3 per cent of PartyGaming's total revenues are generated by Empire, according to the group's listing prospectus. By contrast, Empire's biggest partner by far is PartyGaming. The marketing specialist, known as a "skin" in the gaming industry because its EmpirePoker.com site wraps itself around its rivals' technology, makes money by getting a share of the winnings from each customer it drives onto PartyGaming's software.

Sportingbet, a direct rival of PartyGaming, is keen to acquire Empire to rob its biggest competitor of the stream of new customers Empire puts its way. Internet poker sites rely on having a liquid pool of high-rolling users so that anyone looking to join a game can do so immediately.
PartyGaming's chief executive, Richard Segal, will be pressed to confirm whether the group intends to show its hand when he reports the company's maiden interim results tomorrow. Earnings before interest and tax profits are expected to be about $245.5m (£133m) on sales of $440m.

Since Empire Online listed on AIM three months ago, poker fever has swept the City. PartyGaming is set to join the FTSE 100 this week with a higher market valuation than stalwarts such as Marks & Spencer. 888.com, the world's largest online casino by number of visitors, launched a £700m initial public offering last week.

With much of the highly fragmented industry still in private hands, internet casino operators are keen to have a public quoting to raise their profile and enough cash to mount an acquisition spree. Empire's admission that it had received a takeover approach so soon after listing triggered a sharp rise in the sector.

Sportingbet, which had net cash of £19m in June, made a small bolt-on acquisition last month, while Empire made two. All three companies declined to comment.

toss 09-04-2005 11:29 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Jurollo 09-04-2005 11:30 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe they will make Empire slow and buggy, one can only hope.
~Justin

jman220 09-04-2005 11:30 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
I'm not up on much to do with the financial markets. If Paradise bought Empire, would that make it likely that Empire would no longer share playerbase with Party?

Jurollo 09-04-2005 11:30 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
The real question is would empire stay on the party network after this, or become a paradise skin?
~Justin

toss 09-04-2005 11:33 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
Haha imagine Paradise transfers all of Party Poker Players to the Paradise server alone. No r******k, 3 tables max, slow software, and 75k players on at the same time. The freakin system will blow up.

Greg J 09-04-2005 11:35 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
With this, and the recent aquisition of Noble by Empire (I think), could we start to see a massive number of consolidations of online poker rooms (or at least attempts)? What about Expekt -- perhaps it will be a skin of another site soon. Hmmmmmm...

Greg J 09-04-2005 11:36 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
They would obviously have to have an overdue massive overhaul to their software if this were to work. As long as I can still get a hotdog I'm cool though.

Jurollo 09-04-2005 11:37 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
With this, and the recent aquisition of Noble by Empire (I think), could we start to see a massive number of consolidations of online poker rooms (or at least attempts)? What about Expekt -- perhaps it will be a skin of another site soon. Hmmmmmm...

[/ QUOTE ]
This would not surprise me at all. A player base of 4000-5000 belonging to a smaller site could be worth a good amount to sites like Prima, UB, or Paradise as they fight for position.
~Justin

uncleshady 09-04-2005 11:37 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
I can only imagine how pissed off Party will be when they take over Empire and only gain 6 users.

Jurollo 09-04-2005 11:38 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I can only imagine how pissed off Party will be when they take over Empire and only gain 6 users.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you READ the press release?
~Justin

uncleshady 09-04-2005 11:39 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
Yeah I did. Still found it funny if Party really did decide to acquire Empire.

MicroBob 09-04-2005 11:49 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
ummm...you mean paradise, not party.

either that or you need to work A LOT on your reading comprehension.

Jurollo 09-04-2005 11:51 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
Bob,
You like your new name by the way? It could be changed to Real Life Superstar when you win your first B&M tourney, or just Superstar.
~Justin

uncleshady 09-04-2005 11:54 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
ummm...you mean paradise, not party.

either that or you need to work A LOT on your reading comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a joke. I read the whole thing, realized Party wasn't the one who was buying Empire, but had considered it, then posted the stupid joke anyhow. Holy hell you guys are dry.

[ QUOTE ]
PartyGaming, the newly floated £6bn online gaming group, will face pressure this week to reveal whether it plans to spark an £800m-plus takeover battle with a rival offer for Empire Online, the internet poker operator.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see how I came up with it?

Jurollo 09-04-2005 11:56 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
I don't get it and I have a very good sense of humor. Just punt.
~Justin

uncleshady 09-04-2005 11:58 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it and I have a very good sense of humor. Just punt.

[/ QUOTE ]

It takes a different type of intelligence. Stick with math.

MicroBob 09-04-2005 11:58 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
Didn't see it till you pointed it out.

I likey.
I think it's a keeper!!

toss 09-05-2005 12:01 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ummm...you mean paradise, not party.

either that or you need to work A LOT on your reading comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a joke. I read the whole thing, realized Party wasn't the one who was buying Empire, but had considered it, then posted the stupid joke anyhow. Holy hell you guys are dry.

[ QUOTE ]
PartyGaming, the newly floated £6bn online gaming group, will face pressure this week to reveal whether it plans to spark an £800m-plus takeover battle with a rival offer for Empire Online, the internet poker operator.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see how I came up with it?

[/ QUOTE ]

When you multitable as much as we do you'll find all joy, humor, and life slowly fading away. Before you even realize it you're sitting in front of 8 tables and contemplating the purchase of a Subway Store.

Jurollo 09-05-2005 12:03 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it and I have a very good sense of humor. Just punt.

[/ QUOTE ]

It takes a different type of intelligence. Stick with math.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I am in a surly mood tonight.
~Justin

uncleshady 09-05-2005 12:05 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Thought I was gonna become Carpal/Tunnel in one thread.

smb394 09-05-2005 12:13 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
Very interesting article, thanks for posting it.

I wasn't aware that Empire only sent 3% of players to the Party network; thought it would more like 10% or so.

I haven't played on Paradise, so I'll leave those comments to others. But the loss of a skin to collect bonii and um, that thing, would sting. I hope they keep their hands off Eurobet (well, maybe just offer to fix their website's cashier and hand history system).

Sniper 09-05-2005 12:25 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't aware that Empire only sent 3% of players to the Party network; thought it would more like 10% or so.


[/ QUOTE ]

The article doesn't quote % of players. The 3% is percent of revenue!

smb394 09-05-2005 12:28 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't aware that Empire only sent 3% of players to the Party network; thought it would more like 10% or so.


[/ QUOTE ]

The article doesn't quote % of players. The 3% is percent of revenue!

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Well that's even more interesting.

boose_bagina 09-05-2005 12:52 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
contemplating the purchase of a Subway Store.

[/ QUOTE ]
hell yeah

Photoc 09-05-2005 12:58 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
EmpirePoker.com site wraps itself around its rivals' technology, makes money by getting a share of the winnings from each customer it drives onto PartyGaming's software.


[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone else find that statement confusing or misleading? They are trying to say that only the winners pay rake, lol. Which is true in a sense, but for someone who doesn't get that part of it right away, it seems like they are saying "if you win, we get 3% of it off the top when you're done".

BruinEric 09-05-2005 03:01 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't aware that Empire only sent 3% of players to the Party network; thought it would more like 10% or so.


[/ QUOTE ]

The article doesn't quote % of players. The 3% is percent of revenue!

[/ QUOTE ]

So assuming Empire/Party split rake share of Party players thru Empire portal (just an assumption), then its approx 6% of players give/take possibility Empire players trend slightly toward lower limits.

daveymck 09-05-2005 05:48 AM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
I dont think Party will stand by and let a competitor take over Empire, it will either kill it off as a skin or buy it out themselves.

I dont understand why Sporting Bet have bought paradise and now want empire I would have thought they would be better off going after stars if they are wanting more rooms as Stars is its own platform and isnt shared and has a big userbase.

Uglyowl 09-05-2005 12:32 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
It is not out of the realm of possibility that Paradise buys Empire and Empire remains on the Party system.

That would be weird, but who knows if the contract prohibits this if there is a takeover.

SackUp 09-05-2005 12:42 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
It is not out of the realm of possibility that Paradise buys Empire and Empire remains on the Party system.

That would be weird, but who knows if the contract prohibits this if there is a takeover.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be the best result for all of us, otherwise good bye Empire.

I think all of us 2+2ers should sack up and pool our money and buy Empire! A site for us, by us.

GrannyMae 09-05-2005 01:37 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
As long as I can still get a hotdog I'm cool though.


wooo

StellarWind 09-05-2005 01:56 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
The real question is would empire stay on the party network after this, or become a paradise skin?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's hard for me to understand how Empire could become a Paradise skin. I think much of the value of the Empire business is the relationship with Party. What percentage of the player volume would actually follow Empire over to Paradise? How much of Empire's precious affiliate network would hold together?

In other words, is it really worth 800M pounds to make Empire into a Paradise skin?

But so far SportingBet has impressed me as incompetent in their handling of Paradise. So even if it is a bad idea it could happen anyway.

Losing all 09-05-2005 02:14 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


In other words, is it really worth 800M pounds to make Empire into a Paradise skin?

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's the plan, it would be beyond stupid. OTOH I can't imagine party not finding a way to fuq them for buying into the network. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how it could possibly work out for them.

scrub 09-05-2005 02:51 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The real question is would empire stay on the party network after this, or become a paradise skin?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's hard for me to understand how Empire could become a Paradise skin. I think much of the value of the Empire business is the relationship with Party. What percentage of the player volume would actually follow Empire over to Paradise? How much of Empire's precious affiliate network would hold together?

In other words, is it really worth 800M pounds to make Empire into a Paradise skin?

But so far SportingBet has impressed me as incompetent in their handling of Paradise. So even if it is a bad idea it could happen anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if internet poker is a very difficult business for consultant types to understand, or if it's hard for a niche community like twoplustwo to have the perspective to understand what factors really drive site traffic.

scrub

solucky 09-05-2005 03:09 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
The good think someone give me plenty $$ for my empire-shares...the poor think i have no Rakeback on Party

AAAA 09-05-2005 03:18 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
$1.5 million dollars for the email list of empire seems like a lot to pay. If a site tookover Empire would they encourage people to play at a different site or network? Why would they give up the megabucks of rake that Empire gets?

I cannot see Party allowing Empire to leave at least not with customers, but maybe Empire is just trying to raise the price that Party will pay. If Party does acquire Empire, wouldn't they eliminate the individual tracker information and stop paying affiliates like they did with Poker Now? Poker Now doesn't even have an affiliate link on its webpage any more.

Would they finally check for duplicate names and make people decide which site they were part of? or would they just make it all one big Party, and combine tourneys and promotions?

Uglyowl 09-05-2005 03:34 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
The good think someone give me plenty $$ for my empire-shares...the poor think i have no Rakeback on Party

[/ QUOTE ]

With the bid I am sure the Empire shares will be rose or will be rising even before any deal.

solucky 09-05-2005 04:02 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
they are higher than the offer in the moment

ackid 09-05-2005 04:14 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
What does this mean for our rake on Empire?

GrannyMae 09-05-2005 04:17 PM

Re: The \"mystery\" bidder for Empire revealed (not who you think)
 
[ QUOTE ]
What does this mean for our rake on Empire?

[/ QUOTE ]


rakeback?

no mas


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