Trip Ks on the Flop
 

I was wondering what's my playe here on the flop.

Party Poker (10 handed) converter

Preflop: I limped first in from middle position with with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Bad player (BP)called. cut-off (CO) called, Solid player (SP) on the button raised. The SB called. I called.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, I bet, BP raise, SP immediately re-raise, CO folds, and SB cold-call 3-bet.

What would you do in this spot?
Also, did I play right by betting the flop?

Thanks

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

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Preflop: I limped first in from middle position with with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

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I hate this.

I also hate your flop bet. Check/raise.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

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I limped first in from middle position

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I stopped reading right there.

Okay, actually I didn't. But the words "I limped first in" should rarely be written, but add "from middle position" in there and it should *never* be written.

Anyway, on the flop I think you have an easy checkraise.

As it stands, maybe someone has the case K with a better kicker, but you can't really fold, especially with several outs to a boat (even against 33 you have 7 outs).

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

to those who like checkraising. why is checkraising better than betting or checkcalling?

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

what limit is this? I think different limits play out a lot differently on this type of hand.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

I cannot see any advantage of check-raising. This would scare the other players, who probably don't have a better hand. And everybody with a better hand would perhaps reraise. So, betting is far better than check-raising.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

3-6.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

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I also hate your flop bet. Check/raise.

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I don't understand the c/r here? We have a dominant hand that we want to extract value from. The button was the pre-flop raiser, so we trap most of the field by leading the flop and hoping for a late position raise.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

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I also hate your flop bet. Check/raise.

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I don't understand the c/r here? We have a dominant hand that we want to extract value from. The button was the pre-flop raiser, so we trap most of the field by leading the flop and hoping for a late position raise.

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Whether or not you check/raise (the flop), is dependent. But you should have a better chance of extracting the maximum by checking trip kings on this board! Especially given that OP did not raise pre-flop.

Result
 

After thinking for a bit, I decided to fold.
BP raising my bet with the flop of KK3r, pre-flop raiser raising that, and SB cold-calling 3 bet, was just a little more action that I wanted. If the SB didn't call, I would've called.

Anyway, BP had Q6s (close to nothing on the flop), SP had QQ, and the SB had K9, so I would've won the hand had I called.

Thanks for all your cooments.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

If you want to extract the maximum, is it a bad play to bet, get raised, and re-raise?

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

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to those who like checkraising. why is checkraising better than betting or checkcalling?

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Check/raising might be best against aggressive thinking players who might now misread your hand (i.e. they would expect trip kings to slow play and might now give excessive action). Otherwise, I like check/calling.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

I think betting this flop is very much the way to play it. The pre-flop raiser was on the button here, so you can likely trap opponents for more bets. The solid player may figure you for a hand like 77 and hopefully will raise with another overpair.

Check-raising is just likely to face much of the field with two bets cold here and encouraging folds. I can't see any reason why we'd want to check-raise here.

Check-calling just seems to be losing value here. Check-calling is nice if we can expect that we'll get a flop bet from someone earlier than button, but we can't expect that. A check-call seems only to set up one of two things:

-A turn donk... this seems to bring little over a flop lead because we're probably missing flop bets.

-A turn check-raise... this will definitely cost customers if it is the button (most likely) we are check-raising.

Oh.. yeah... FOLDING IS NOT AN OPTION IN THIS HAND... PLEASE TAKE THIS TO SHOWDOWN

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

"Check/raising might be best against aggressive thinking players who might now misread your hand"

Check-raising with the board of KK3 is less misreading than betting, IMO.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

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If you want to extract the maximum, is it a bad play to bet, get raised, and re-raise?

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Heads-up, no. That's because heads-up QQ has a much harder time folding. But in a multi-way pot, you want to create action. One other thing you (and everyone else?), might be overlooking:

If the pre-flop raiser has a king and no one else does, you're bet accomplishes the worst possible thing. That is, it gets you heads-up with a hand you're in trouble to.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

You should raise preflop, like others have said.

On the flop I like bet/3 betting. With your relative position to the solid player leading this flop gievs you the best chance to get in as many bets as possible. If he has a pair he will likely raise; if he doesn't have a pair he will check through too often given the number of players in the pot.

After it comes back to you 3 bet I would cap and keep firing.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

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If you want to extract the maximum, is it a bad play to bet, get raised, and re-raise?

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Heads-up, no. That's because heads-up QQ has a much harder time folding. But in a multi-way pot, you want to create action. One other thing you (and everyone else?), might be overlooking:

If the pre-flop raiser has a king and no one else does, you're bet accomplishes the worst possible thing. That is, it gets you heads-up with a hand you're in trouble to.

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Realize that check-raising the pre-flop raiser is MUCH more likely to get you heads-up with him than betting is. If you bet and get callers, those callers are going to have a hard time folding to another bet from late position.

I don't like three-betting a late position raise, as it will encourage folds. I think calling the flop raising and leading the turn (ye 'ole' donk-bet) is going to be a better way to encourage action.

I can't see how anyone is seriously considering check-raising here...

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

"FOLDING IS NOT AN OPTION IN THIS HAND... PLEASE TAKE THIS TO SHOWDOWN"

Yes sir!

...it's just what hands are they suppose to have with the board of KK3???

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

"After it comes back to you 3 bet I would cap and keep firing."

Wow! Why so aggressive sir? But maybe I'm just too weak [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I assume you will slow donw if you get riased again on the turn, right?

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

i know betting pre flop is good, but i often have trouble when i raise preflop and dont hit and there are three and four players behind me.....you cant keep firing at that many players........what would you do with a flop like:
assume rainbow

A 4 7
or J 10 6
ect,ect?

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

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"FOLDING IS NOT AN OPTION IN THIS HAND... PLEASE TAKE THIS TO SHOWDOWN"

Yes sir!

...it's just what hands are they suppose to have with the board of KK3???

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Note two things:

1. By betting out your hand, you are somewhat disguising it. Opponents will not put you on Ks often. Hence, they'll raise, and even reraise, light. I would not at all be surprised to see a player with 88 or similar three-bet this flop.

2. Players play Ks with worse kickers than Ts here, and will never fold them.

Even if you are outkicked, you have outs to beat or tie them. The players that were doing the raising were not the pre-flop raiser here (iirc) and hence I'm not too worried about a hand like AK here.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

There's only one more King in the deck for crying out loud. Two players can't have a K and the only other hand you're behind against is 3,3. At least one person, probably two playerrs are getting way out of line. Easy to see how BP might to try to get it heads up in a big pot when he puts you on a 3 since you came out swinging on the flop. Personally I don't like leading with your hand on the flop. The comments from the another poster saying your hand is disguised somewhat is right on IMO as were his other comments FWIW.

Re: Trip Ks on the Flop
 

The real reason why you shouldn't consider folding is exactly what adios is saying. There is only one more king in the deck! That means that for every round of bets going in, two players are donating to you and the other king. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the other king only has to have a worse kicker than you quite seldom for this to be CLEAR value for you.