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- - *Official* Boat or Better Thread (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=389268)

jaxUp

12-01-2005 03:38 PM

*Official* Boat or Better Thread

Ok, so you just picked up a monster hand (whether on flop, turn, or river), and you're looking to extract the max. Whether you flopped the Eegahs (quad 9's) or rivered your BD royal, these hands can be a little intimidating. Everybody is excited to finally have the stone cold nuts and they're looking to get paid.

What you need to consider is that micro players tend to suck. Generally the best line is to bet and raise like hell. People will call. They like to. Let them. You never know when somebody wants to go to war with you with a worse hand. Yes, occasionally, you will bet/raise and everyone will fold. You will win a tiny pot. When that happens, shrug and move on. If even the calling stations won't call you, there wasn't any more value to extract from the hand. Big hands will sometimes equal tiny pots...because you will have every card worth having. Against typical micro opponents, you will still usually win much more playing hard and fast.

I'd say the only potential exceptions to this are when you are HU, or will force everybody to call multiple bets on a drawless board.
So, if you have a hand with a boat or better and would like to discuss it, please post it in this thread, and it will receive the appropriate attention.
Strategy posts only please. If you want to brag, check out this forum.

*Some boats are especially interesting and should get their own thread. If you are unsure whether yours is interesting or not, then it's not. Trust me. Post it here and somebody will take a look at it.

tiltaholic

12-01-2005 03:49 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

can we make it boat or better?

MrWookie47

12-01-2005 03:54 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

An interesting idea. I guess we can consider this the replacement for the NC thread now that another forum cornered the market. I'm not sure if it'll take off. I guess we'll see.

jaxUp

12-01-2005 03:58 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
An interesting idea. I guess we can consider this the replacement for the NC thread now that another forum cornered the market. I'm not sure if it'll take off. I guess we'll see.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want this to become a NC thread. At worst it will be LC. If I see bad beat posts or brag posts in this thread there may be violence.

UATrewqaz

12-01-2005 03:58 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

Why not extend this idea and have threads for like common situations you see posted alot

"Overpair to the board"
"TPTK on a co-ordinated board"
"QQ/KK and an ace flops, etc."

or would that just get too cumbersome?

bottomset

12-01-2005 04:00 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
can we make it boat or better?

[/ QUOTE ]

what about the times bottomset doesn't fill up can they go in here too?

jaxUp

12-01-2005 04:01 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
Why not extend this idea and have threads for like common situations you see posted alot

"Overpair to the board"
"TPTK on a co-ordinated board"
"QQ/KK and an ace flops, etc."

or would that just get too cumbersome?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that those situations are a little more unique. Pot size and reads become more important, as does the number of opponents. Also, it would kill potentially beneficial discussion.

MrWookie47

12-01-2005 04:03 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

I worded that poorly. I mean that with one forum taking all the junk (although it seems to have become Beats, Brags, and Trolls), we can have 100% strategy here. This thread "takes its place" as a designated spot for whatever has the lowest level of acceptable content for this forum - now medium content.

SoftcoreRevolt

12-01-2005 04:09 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

I dislike this being a Boat or Better thread. Boat threads can have merits, since there is often a place one should slow down before boating up on the river, bottom boats on scary boards versus a PFR, and are also a lot more common. Adding boats to this thread will make any real advice be really confusing due to the number of posts.

jaxUp

12-01-2005 04:10 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
I dislike this being a Boat or Better thread. Boat threads can have merits, since there is often a place one should slow down before boating up on the river, bottom boats on scary boards versus a PFR, and are also a lot more common. Adding boats to this thread will make any real advice be really confusing due to the number of posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

See my edit at the bottom of OP. Does that suit you?

tiltaholic

12-01-2005 04:14 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

this happened a little while ago.

loose passive 5/10 table

i limp A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG

MP1 raises. He is loose and aggressive and bad.
folded to CO and Button who both call two. The big blind calls. I call.

5 way flop for 10sb. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks. I check. MP1 bets. CO folds. Button calls. BB calls. I call?

Turn 4 ways, 7bb. J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP1 bets. button folds. BB calls. I raise?

jaxUp

12-01-2005 04:17 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

I c/r the flop here. With no guarantee he'll be the turn, I think the chance of it getting checked through is not worth the risk of waiting. I get a max of 5 bets in on turn and rive combined.

and yeah, as it played out you need to c/r that turn.

MrWookie47

12-01-2005 04:17 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

I would prolly c/r the flop since you got those guys trapped.

UATrewqaz

12-01-2005 04:21 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

This is a good one...

If you analyze the turn....

MP1 bets into large field (3 opponents) on the 4 flush board...

The only reasonable hands he can have to bet with is the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (would be the nut regular flush) or the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (which is the pure nuts).

Would MP1 be stupid enough to bet a crappy [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here? Or would he also be the type that would totally bluff? (bluffing into a large field like that would almost be insane, as you figure against 3 opponents there is at least 1 diamond somewhere).

Very read dependent. Based on your read and the fact you have a bozo trapped in between raise.

I probably don't go into this depth of thought during the hand and just raise becuase if my SF loses to a higher one, heck that's poker.

12-01-2005 04:26 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread *DELETED*

Post deleted by Keepitsimple

jaxUp

12-01-2005 04:27 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

you da man KIS. Thanks.

12-01-2005 05:09 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
you da man KIS. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
because of this praise Im going to post a hand from todays totally missplayed session [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

It was 5 handed and I was UTG.

Game # 179335936 - Texas Hold'em Fixed Limit EUR 1,00/2,00 - Table "Fredrikstad"
Game ended 2005-12-01 20:52:41 GMT+01:00

Players:
Luckbox (EUR 64,50 in seat 4)
Villain (EUR 22,00 in seat 6)

Dealer: Villain
Small Blind: uninteresting guy 1 (0,50)
Big Blind: uninteresting guy 2 (1,00)

Luckbox was dealt: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Luckbox Raise (2,00)
Villain Call (2,00)
Flop 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Luckbox Bet (1,00)
Villain Call (1,00)

Turn 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Luckbox Bet (2,00)
Villain Raise (4,00)
Luckbox Raise (4,00)
Villain Call (2,00)

River 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Luckbox Bet (2,00)
Villain Raise (4,00)
Luckbox Raise (4,00)
Villain Raise (4,00)
Luckbox Call (2,00)

Villain shows: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a full house, tens full of fives)
Luckbox shows: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (four of a kind, fives)

Luckbox wins: EUR 33,75 (with four of a kind, fives)
Rake: EUR 1,75
The only interesting part is that villain didnt cap the turn because he feared the flush. I guess the kittens got angry and punished him.

jaxUp

12-01-2005 05:12 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

I don't think I'm raising that UTG here. I'd prob raise from CO or BTN, so UTG can't be far off, but I don't think it works enough to be profitable. Postflop is straightforward.

12-01-2005 05:20 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I'm raising that UTG here. I'd prob raise from CO or BTN, so UTG can't be far off, but I don't think it works enough to be profitable. Postflop is straightforward.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I fold 66-55 UTG in a 6-handed game. But I figured one position better should mean something atleast. And a pair isnt that hard to play OOP.

12-01-2005 06:18 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

I can't find the hand, but at Full Tilt 1/2, I limped on the button with 33 after 2 EP limpers. The BB raised, and all 3 called. My 100+ hand read was that I had 3 LAGs who would play any 2 suited or better.

Flop came A 3 3. BB bet, EP1 called, EP2 raised . . .

I thought for almost the max time trying to decide if I should raise or donk cold call 2. The reasoning that won out was to cc and pray for the BB to re-raise. He had demonstrated a tendency to stay in the lead if he liked his hand, regardless of position. He did, and got 3 more calls.

Turn was Ks, putting 4 to the flush on the board. Same exact betting - I cold called 2 and was rewarded with a BB re-raise.

Riv completed the flush (BOO-Yeah!) BB bet, 1 call, EP2 raises (?!?) and now I raise. After a serious pause, BB capped, EP1 folded (finally? guess he couldn't beat a flush) and EP2 called, I called.

Results: Quad 3s>>>>>>>>Ks full of 3s>>>>>>>A high flush

The lesson was clear to me - think far more about your opponent's likely miopic view of their cards far more than your own. I actually think it is easier to focus on their likely holdings when yours is a no brainer. It also helps when donks also make their hands without noticing that you are along for the ride.

12-01-2005 07:00 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Right here I think I may have got three more bets out of him, but i figured a weak ace since he didnt raise preflop so i didnt know if i should c/r this flop or not...

Turn: (2.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls.

here comes the money...

River: (10.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP3 caps, Hero calls.

Mainly wondering about my flop play...

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 5h 5s (four of a kind, fives).
MP3 has 4h As (full house, aces full of fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.75 BB.

12-01-2005 07:08 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

And one more...

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.75.
UTG (poster) checks, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 3-bets, 5 folds, UTG calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls $0.50 (All-In), UTG calls.

I cap this preflop figuring he had KK or AA just because I can get him out of the way since he will be all in... Was that a good idea?

Flop: (14 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Probably should have went for the c/r??? Or was this leading out ok since i did cap preflop i figured it would get checked...

Turn: (8 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qs Qc (four of a kind, queens).
MP2 has Ah Ac (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 11 BB.

12-01-2005 07:13 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

Always cap with QQ preflop. You can't check/raise because you are in position.

12-01-2005 08:18 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
Always cap with QQ preflop. You can't check/raise because you are in position.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol about the c/r thing, i dont know what i was thinking, thanks for pointing that out...

12-01-2005 08:23 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
I can't find the hand, but at Full Tilt 1/2, I limped on the button with 33 after 2 EP limpers. The BB raised, and all 3 called. My 100+ hand read was that I had 3 LAGs who would play any 2 suited or better.

Flop came A 3 3. BB bet, EP1 called, EP2 raised . . .

I thought for almost the max time trying to decide if I should raise or donk cold call 2. The reasoning that won out was to cc and pray for the BB to re-raise. He had demonstrated a tendency to stay in the lead if he liked his hand, regardless of position. He did, and got 3 more calls.

Turn was Ks, putting 4 to the flush on the board. Same exact betting - I cold called 2 and was rewarded with a BB re-raise.

Riv completed the flush (BOO-Yeah!) BB bet, 1 call, EP2 raises (?!?) and now I raise. After a serious pause, BB capped, EP1 folded (finally? guess he couldn't beat a flush) and EP2 called, I called.

Results: Quad 3s>>>>>>>>Ks full of 3s>>>>>>>A high flush

The lesson was clear to me - think far more about your opponent's likely miopic view of their cards far more than your own. I actually think it is easier to focus on their likely holdings when yours is a no brainer. It also helps when donks also make their hands without noticing that you are along for the ride.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post.

Guthrie

12-01-2005 08:26 PM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
An interesting idea. I guess we can consider this the replacement for the NC thread now that another forum cornered the market. I'm not sure if it'll take off. I guess we'll see.

[/ QUOTE ]
It won't take off. Any time you force new posts into an existing thread, the thread dies and you get no dicsussion, especially with the board software on life support.

The stats posts, which I always found extremely beneficial, have been destroyed by burying them in a single post, which everyone now ignores.

12-01-2005 09:52 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
this happened a little while ago.

loose passive 5/10 table

i limp A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG

MP1 raises. He is loose and aggressive and bad.
folded to CO and Button who both call two. The big blind calls. I call.

5 way flop for 10sb. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks. I check. MP1 bets. CO folds. Button calls. BB calls. I call?

Turn 4 ways, 7bb. J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP1 bets. button folds. BB calls. I raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're wondering what that hand looks like from the villian's point of view, here you go -

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Qd Qc (straight flush, queen high).
SB has 7c 5c (straight flush, jack high).
Outcome: Hero wins 14.50 BB.

SB was most unhappy after that hand. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

12-01-2005 10:03 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

In situations where you flop a big hand (ie boat/flush/straight) How should it be played, generally I will slowplay against few opponents, in this situation I hit a big hand but I didn't want to scare anyone away how did I play it?

no reads

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

I din't bet or c/r here as I thought I would scare everyone away, also I wanted to c/r the turn (I would of bet/c-r if there were more opponents)

Turn: (5 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (11 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, Hero ?

I'm worried I've been slowplayed by a flush, do I call or raise? (then again wouldn't someone with a flush re-raise the turn?)

12-02-2005 01:23 AM

Re: *Official* Quads or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
An interesting idea. I guess we can consider this the replacement for the NC thread now that another forum cornered the market. I'm not sure if it'll take off. I guess we'll see.

[/ QUOTE ]
It won't take off. Any time you force new posts into an existing thread, the thread dies and you get no dicsussion, especially with the board software on life support.

The stats posts, which I always found extremely beneficial, have been destroyed by burying them in a single post, which everyone now ignores.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry but i agree... unless this is stickied i dont see it staying around

benkath1

12-02-2005 11:00 AM

66 in BB

OK, here's one. I'm playing at Stars and the tables are loosey goosey, as you'll soon see.

I'm in BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

1 limp, 2 limp, 3 limp raise , 3 bet from hijack , folded to me.

Now the way utg and utg+1 and utg+2 have been playing, I was about 95% sure, if I called, they were calling. I was just as certain that if the action was capped, they were coming along too.

So I called the 2 sb and lo and behold, so did the limpers. MP2 (original raiser) caps, and hijack calls with the rest of us.

All 6 of us see a flop with 24.5 sb in it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Yummy!! But this is where I'm a little lost.

So being oop holding a monster, I check, intending to CR if it's heads up.

4 checks to the original raiser and he bets, hijack raises so I smooth call the 2 bets, hoping for some overcalls and possibly a 3 bet from MP2. I get one overcall, and MP2 makes it 3 , hijack calls, and I go ahead and cap it , all 3 of them call. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Turn anyone? How about a brick for 20.25 BB?

4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to make it:
6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, UTG+1 calls all in, MP2 calls,

river is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, MP2 calls and hates me.

I win 24bb pot with boat,
utg+1 has 77 for 2 pair,
and MP2 has AA, another 2 pair

Was my preflop call correct, knowing that this could be a huge multiway pot? I will know on the flop if I'm gonna continue.

tiltaholic

12-02-2005 11:08 AM

Re: 66 in BB

[ QUOTE ]
OK, here's one. I'm playing at Stars and the tables are loosey goosey, as you'll soon see.

I'm in BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

1 limp, 2 limp, 3 limp raise , 3 bet from hijack , folded to me.

Now the way utg and utg+1 and utg+2 have been playing, I was about 95% sure, if I called, they were calling. I was just as certain that if the action was capped, they were coming along too.

So I called the 2 sb and lo and behold, so did the limpers. MP2 (original raiser) caps, and hijack calls with the rest of us.

All 6 of us see a flop with 24.5 sb in it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Yummy!! But this is where I'm a little lost.

So being oop holding a monster, I check, intending to CR if it's heads up.

4 checks to the original raiser and he bets, hijack raises so I smooth call the 2 bets, hoping for some overcalls and possibly a 3 bet from MP2. I get one overcall, and MP2 makes it 3 , hijack calls, and I go ahead and cap it , all 3 of them call. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Turn anyone? How about a brick for 20.25 BB?

4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to make it:
6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, UTG+1 calls all in, MP2 calls,

river is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, MP2 calls and hates me.

I win 24bb pot with boat,
utg+1 has 77 for 2 pair,
and MP2 has AA, another 2 pair

Was my preflop call correct, knowing that this could be a huge multiway pot? I will know on the flop if I'm gonna continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think the pf call is good.

i think i'd call the 3-bet on the flop and C/R the turn since you know UTG+1 is throwing in his last bet and MP will call or raise...

Eeegah

12-02-2005 02:28 PM

Re: 66 in BB

I love you, passive players.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, CO calls.

River: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Results in white below: 
CO has Ah 7h (flush, ace high).
Hero has 3d 3h (full house, threes full of nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 13 BB.

12-02-2005 03:12 PM

Re: 66 in BB

grunch...this is for the 66 in BB flopped boat

Well you thought you had ridiculous implied odds to make your hand. You got a BB discount on the flop, so you were paying 3 BB to get into a pot with 21.5 sb, thats your 7:1 right there that you need to see the flop! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] And if you think about implied odds, you were completely right about getting a lot of action--your implied odds ended up being 40.5:3 (not counting the money you put into the pot later, which you dont lose if you miss the flop.)

So the EV of this play is pretty high IMO without actually running the calculation.

Ah what the hell, why not:
You lose (7/8) * 3SB when you miss.
You win (1/8) * 21.5SB when you flop it, assuming the hand ends there. You can expect at least 6-8 more BB into the pot I would think since donks will be overplaying overpairs. Lets go with 7 more BB you can expect to win on later streets, which is still probably conservative as we have seen from the action in this hand.

EV = -(7/8)*1.5BB + (1/8)17.75BB = -1.31BB + 2.22BB
EV = +0.91BB (at least)

Looks like a good play to me.

Somebody let me know if I did that right.

Steve

shant

12-02-2005 03:40 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

I think I played this quads hand pretty good. Villain was a TAG.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 raises, 5 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls.

River: (10.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 14.16 BB

12-02-2005 04:01 PM

Why you don\'t need to slowplay quads at 1/2

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

tiltaholic

12-02-2005 04:04 PM

Re: Why you don\'t need to slowplay quads at 1/2

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling the flop 3-bet is better i think so you can raise the turn.

12-02-2005 04:38 PM

Re: Why you don\'t need to slowplay quads at 1/2

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling the flop 3-bet is better i think so you can raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think so. We hit such a big piece of the board. Just pop it like its hot and hope someone else hit.

12-02-2005 04:40 PM

Re: *Official* Boat or Better Thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this happened a little while ago.

loose passive 5/10 table

i limp A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG

MP1 raises. He is loose and aggressive and bad.
folded to CO and Button who both call two. The big blind calls. I call.

5 way flop for 10sb. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks. I check. MP1 bets. CO folds. Button calls. BB calls. I call?

Turn 4 ways, 7bb. J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP1 bets. button folds. BB calls. I raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're wondering what that hand looks like from the villian's point of view, here you go -

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Qd Qc (straight flush, queen high).
SB has 7c 5c (straight flush, jack high).
Outcome: Hero wins 14.50 BB.

SB was most unhappy after that hand. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
raise the flop for value.

tiltaholic

12-02-2005 04:55 PM

Re: Why you don\'t need to slowplay quads at 1/2

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling the flop 3-bet is better i think so you can raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think so. We hit such a big piece of the board. Just pop it like its hot and hope someone else hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB obviously hit and will almost definitely bet the turn if we call, but will likely check if we cap. CO seems to have no p roblem calling anything.

12-02-2005 05:33 PM

Re: Why you don\'t need to slowplay quads at 1/2

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

CO:K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for a flush.
BB:A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for 2 pair, Aces and Queens.
Hero: Flopped da nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling the flop 3-bet is better i think so you can raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think so. We hit such a big piece of the board. Just pop it like its hot and hope someone else hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB obviously hit and will almost definitely bet the turn if we call, but will likely check if we cap. CO seems to have no p roblem calling anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think its rare to find a guy who will call two big bets on the turn without a better hand than A9o. I think its better to collect on the flop when we are sure that the bets go in.

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