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-   -   Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=399025)

tylerdurden 12-20-2005 11:55 PM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
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Are you saying that human rights are scientifically determinable? This I'd like to hear.

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Yes. Human rights follow logically from property rights, which follow logically from self-ownership, which is self-evident.

If you don't own yourself, how can you engage in debate? How can you do research, examine evidence, formulate opinions, and present them? How can the one you are debating listen to your arguments, consider them freely, and accept or reject your arguments if he doesn't have self-ownership?

12-21-2005 12:05 AM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
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If the majority thinks that the earth is flat, is the earth flat?

[/ QUOTE ]Are you saying that human rights are scientifically determinable? This I'd like to hear.

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Yes. Human rights follow logically from property rights, which follow logically from self-ownership, which is self-evident.

If you don't own yourself, how can you engage in debate? How can you do research, examine evidence, formulate opinions, and present them? How can the one you are debating listen to your arguments, consider them freely, and accept or reject your arguments if he doesn't have self-ownership?

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Science & Philosophy are not the same thing. You are a bit confused. Do you see how the earth being flat is something that can be disproven using science, but that "self-evident property rights" can't?

I sure hope so.

Anyway, it's funny that you think your philosophy is fact, and not up for debate, therefore you get to dictate what laws are oppressive and which aren't. Do you see why this is absurd? Probably not.

tylerdurden 12-21-2005 12:34 AM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
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Science & Philosophy are not the same thing. You are a bit confused. Do you see how the earth being flat is something that can be disproven using science, but that "self-evident property rights" can't?

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Man, like all natural entities, has a set of properties - a "nature". One can determine the nature of, oxygen, or fungus, or an oak tree, through scientific principles. Man is no different.

The nature of man is to make decisions and then act. This process includes observation of his environment, goal setting, and advancement/betterment. It is important to note that man can only act as an individual. Interference with man's thinking and acting, therefore, is "antihuman".

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Anyway, it's funny that you think your philosophy is fact, and not up for debate, therefore you get to dictate what laws are oppressive and which aren't. Do you see why this is absurd? Probably not.

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I don't get to dictate anything, any more than I get to dictate the shape of the earth.

12-21-2005 10:28 AM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
I didn't know anarcho-capitalism was a religion. Good to know.

imported_luckyme 12-21-2005 11:50 AM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
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we do not allow siblings to marry because of the risk of birth defects.

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So, a couple that can't conceive would be allowed to marry?

luckyme

siegfriedandroy 12-21-2005 12:05 PM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
this is an interesting exchange that doesnt seem to really solve anything. and utilitarianism indeed sucks. pvwhatever is right

jthegreat 12-21-2005 12:09 PM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
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I didn't know anarcho-capitalism was a religion. Good to know.

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Sarcasm and hyperbole are not arguments, Kip. Address pvn's point.

Is psychology science? If not, why not? What about sociology or economics? Is it not possible to study human biology and behavior in order to determine why humans act the way they do?

12-21-2005 01:52 PM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
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I didn't know anarcho-capitalism was a religion. Good to know.

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Sarcasm and hyperbole are not arguments, Kip. Address pvn's point.

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I would, but it feels like I'm talking to NotReady. And philosophy is not science. Psychology can be, depends on what is studied and how. Anyway, we digress. The "nature of man is to make decisions and act" is a philosophical statement. "The earth is round" is a scientific one. Anyway, I'm bored with this conversation. I would really like to know how an anarcho-capitalist thinks that property rights are somehow undisiputable, but other laws in a democracy are not.

I did mention eminenent domain laws... but never got a response on that. Are they oppressive, immoral or against nature or something?

jthegreat 12-21-2005 02:05 PM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
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The "nature of man is to make decisions and act" is a philosophical statement.

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No, that's a scientific fact. If you don't understand why, you should rethink your definition of science.

12-21-2005 02:58 PM

Re: Philosophy questions - Morality & Moral Theories
 
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The "nature of man is to make decisions and act" is a philosophical statement.

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No, that's a scientific fact. If you don't understand why, you should rethink your definition of science.

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I reread what he wrote. It's ambiguous how he's using the term "nature". It sounded philosophical, but I can see how he may just be describing an observation of humans -- that we "make decisions" and then act. Although the "making decisisons" part could be a philosophical conversation -- we've already had that, though.

In either case, using that to somehow claim certain property rights are "natural" -- is a philosophical jump. And one that he think is undisputable, apparantly. Much like a religious zealot would.


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