Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

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Is Kung Fu just not practical? By the way, I just watched a couple of clips of Fedor--he looks like he passes out ass whippings all day.

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I am by no means an expert on kung fu - but it has been useless in MMA, and is generally bashed by MMA fans.

Fedor is god, btw. He has one loss where he was cut by an elbow on the follow through of a punch 5 seconds into the fight, and it had to be stopped. He was one other close fight, and the rest are domination. Right now, IMO, he is pretty much unbeatable - about his only real threat comes up in August.

Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

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Is Kung Fu just not practical? By the way, I just watched a couple of clips of Fedor--he looks like he passes out ass whippings all day.

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Of course it is. count me as one who hasnt jumped on the MMA bandwagon yet. I do enjoy watching it, but generally we are watching the more skilled fighters. And the original UFC was basically a Gracie exhibition, so I wouldnt point to that as a proof of the greatness of MMA. I guess what I am trying to say, for the average person, it doesnt reallly matter much. It is certainly logical to think in a full contact match that it pays to be well rounded. Then again, my old TKD instructor won several open style full contact tournaments. Anyone who diligently applies themself to some form of MA is probably going to be able to handle themselves adequately in a self defense scenario.

Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

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Jeez, that "kung fu expert" was lame. Really skittish. Three half-hearted half-kicks at the lower leg, pretty much immobile, and then running straight backwards at the first sign of aggression. This guy was tailor-made to be taken down by anyone willing to mix it up a little, and had no confidence, or mobility, or aggression.

He did have the guts to take a beating, though. It took him a long time to give up. Still, a sad demonstration.

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Blarg,

Keep in mind this guy had 15 yrs of training in Kung Fu and claimed to be undefeated. Gracie defeated this guy fairly easily. I think this video is MUCH more impressive than you think.

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I think the tape shows what it shows pretty straightforwardly. I'd certainly not go back to someone's claimed credentials to trump reality instead of letting reality speak for itself. Maybe the guy was just scared, but he gave a really weak performance. Claiming this one fight, as the narrator does, is definitive proof of the weakness of anyone who practices striking arts is really pushing things way too far.

I say this as someone with a third degree black belt in jiu-jitsu myself, having it as my first art. So I'm not a guy here saying too much is being made of jiu-jitsu or that it's weak or anything. I think I have plenty of perspective on it. But I've done striking arts for years too, and I'm familiar with their value as well.

I'm particularly well aware of the classic antagonism between styles along ethnic, grappling vs striking, hands vs foot-centric(foot-centric?), "mixed" vs. pure styles, straight vs. circular styles, and hard vs. soft lines, and even the vicious political infighting and disrespect that can go on inside the same style. (Both jiu-jitus and Wing Chun, the styles, I studied, are famous for that political infighting crap.) Claiming you're the greatest and that other styles are full of weaknesses is nothing new in the martial arts, and neither is being unfair about it; it's the norm. It's what people do to sell the product that is their livelihood. It's normal human pride and human weakness, often with a hearty helping of arrogance and ignorance.

The guy retreated in a straight line -- not what an experienced fighter does, no secret there.

He was very immobile -- some styles like that, some don't. I count it as a negative, but that's just me.

He flicked out a couple of lame low kicks that could have gotten him hurt a lot earlier than not doing anything at all. Maybe he was just feeling things out, but it looked to me like something more timid and undirected than that.

Gracie, in reasonably close range, had his hands down in a way a boxer would have taken advantage of, or at least tried to. It would have been a lot more productive than going for a half-hearted dig at the shin. Unless this guy's specialty is shin-style kung fu or something?

Not to comment on Gracie's skill, but Gracie was able to move in fairly easily because this guy wasn't threatening any serious targets even when given openings, so his offense, such as it was, didn't hold Gracie back, much less hurt him. Mr. Kung Fu was also immobile enough that Gracie had every reason to not waste any more time NOT trying a takedown. Whatever was going to come his way when he risked trying it wasn't exactly intimidating or off-balancing. It was a tailor-made situation for a takedown -- a guy who isn't aggressively taking advantage of openings to primary targets(which is after all what striking is all about) and who isn't mobile.

This was child's play for Gracie. Which is not to put down Gracie in the slightest. I'm pretty sure Gracie could take care of guys ten times tougher than this guy any day of the week. It's just that this guy wasn't up to the challenge.

For what it's worth, I think this is in yet another way a clear example of why it's so much the man more than the style that wins fights. We never really got a chance to see what the kung fu guy could do, because he was too intimidated to do it. A fight is no place for hesitancy and half-measures. Who knows what skill level this guy might have had? On another day, or with another guy of exactly the same skill level but more presence of mind, things could perhaps have been different. But frankly, in this match, this guy was guaranteed to lose. You can't win even a sparring match, much less a fight, fighting like that.

Lots of us have ideas about which style is best, almost all of which are piss poor and useless, one of the worst of which is that there is even a style that's best in the first place. If we're going to get judgmental, we at least have to do it in a fair arena.

Jiu-jitsu and kung fu are both potentially great. But this tape wasn't proof of anything except that a better fighter can beat a worse one. Please, if we're going to get into competitive "this style is better" stuff, we can't stretch the arguments too far out of shape with total mismatches and then claim proof.

Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

Good post. What really jumped out at me was this guys complete lack of mobility. Now my experience is almost entirely in TKD, which as you know is a fairly linear style. But if I _know_ they guy is looking for a takedown, Im going to be constantly in motion. And if he rushes me like Gracie did, you can bet he is taking a shot right in face.

And before anyone says it, Im not saying I could best Royce Gracie. Im just trying to point out why I wasnt impressed by this video, other than watching an obviously skilled fighter like Gracie.

Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

i think it would depend. if you're "i can do this in my sleep" skillful, then that's pretty good. but you can still make mistakes or take a bad hit. no matter what you do, you will not lose 100lbs of weight in a fight, so i'd probably go with that unless we're talking the TOP TIERS of skill.

Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

A fifteen-year-old boy by definition has not had extensive martial arts training.

Bruce Lee was pretty upfront that he couldn't beat Gene Lebell.

At the tip-top echelons (and I mean two or three living people in a given style), you may see some of this, but they're going to be at least in their 30's and male.

Unless the kid's a knife fighter, and that equalizes a lot.

Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

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A fifteen-year-old boy by definition has not had extensive martial arts training.

Bruce Lee was pretty upfront that he couldn't beat Gene Lebell.

At the tip-top echelons (and I mean two or three living people in a given style), you may see some of this, but they're going to be at least in their 30's and male.

Unless the kid's a knife fighter, and that equalizes a lot.

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Or has bow hunting skills or numchuck skills.

Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

The title says 100lbs of weight but example says 200lbs.

Either way its still possible if the large guy had no idea what he was doing. But if the big guy gets a hold of him then alot of his moves wont work, lil guy would have to resort to damage inflicting moves like eye gouge,ear rip, nut bust, throat collapse, etc..

All of which can be learned at Rex Kwon Do dojo

Re: What is more important in a fight, 100+lbs of weight or skill?
 

I assumed the reason you don't see much kicking (aside from low, to the legs) in UFC (which I've only seen a little of) is that high kicks are obvious and slow and only end up compromising you. you really thing you could defend against a take down with a high kick?