results
 

He folded before I finished counting out my bills.

My flop and turn thinking was along the lines of what gregery wrote. I thought he was much more likely to have a made hand than a draw leading into a mob. When I checked and called I was pretty sure he put me on diamonds.

When he overbet the turn I had to think for a while. Given my read on his read I decided he had a big ace or top two and was trying to shut me out. If he had bet 400 or so I would have folded. I considered raising but top two seemed likely there. No one talked about what I had in the way of implied odds; I thought I had a fair chance of getting paid off, especially if the straight came in. Maybe this is too optimistic.

The hand hinges on his turn bet meaning he's not full. When he's not it's definitely profitable, but obviously I'm burning a lot of chips when he is.

I thought a lot of you wouldn't like this one. It worked this time but I'm willing to be convinced it was suicide.

Re: commerce hand
 

Aiya. I guess I'll chalk it up to being young and having to win every pot. Maybe I'll grow out of it someday. You are probably right, as usual, especially about it all being El Diablo's fault.

Re: commerce hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
your image in this game is of someone who brings a lot of Mama's money to the table.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is pretty much what I assume people think until I've played with them for a while. But you say this almost like you were there...were you?

[ QUOTE ]
unless you think the amount of his turn bet was sheer coincidence

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I thought it was the most important thing in the hand.

Re: results
 

I play the 10/20 at Commerce 5 or 6 days a week and have played against your opponent too many times to count. I would say that if knowing your man is the key to making a big move, then you could not have picked a more perfect target.

I've seen him muck with what had to be the best hand time and time again - Not that he showed his cards, but I've seen average players make very transparent moves on him.

Well done.

As an aside, I was playing with him last night. I lost a fairly big pot and stood up from the table. As I stood, my right hand got clipped by his stupid fan. Next time you see him, please break it for me.

Re: results
 

[ QUOTE ]
As an aside, I was playing with him last night. I lost a fairly big pot and stood up from the table. As I stood, my right hand got clipped by his stupid fan. Next time you see him, please break it for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, welcome to the forum. Post hands from your sessions at Commerce when you get a chance, they're great for learning deep stack NL.

Justin A

Re: results
 

GoG,
So basically you figured you had 23 outs on the turn. The eight clubs (the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] doesn't help you), eleven diamonds, and four offsuit cards that make your straight. You thought you'd get paid off with any of the clubs, and the non-diamond straight cards, while you could bluff and take down the pot with any diamond. Is this the right idea?

Here's where I'm confused. You said your read of his read is that he put you on diamonds. Does this still hold after you called the overbet? Does your call maybe make him think he's beat with top two or big ace?

What would have been your line if you got there on the river with say an offsuit nine or a low club? What about a diamond that completes your straight?

One more thing. Was there a chance this guy knew that you'd think an overbet meant he wasn't full, so he'd go ahead and make the big bet so that you'd call with your draw? Are there players in this game that would make a move like that?

There's a lot of questions here but this hand is really interesting and I don't quite understand all of it.

thanks,
Justin A

Re: results
 

One more thing. Was there a chance this guy knew that you'd think an overbet meant he wasn't full, so he'd go ahead and make the big bet so that you'd call with your draw? Are there players in this game that would make a move like that?

This looks too over the top sophisticated. He's paranoid about a draw and wants to punish his caller. This does become interesting, though, if he knows you well and respects you enough to KNOW that you wont call your flush draw on the turn without odds.

Re: results
 

He probably just thought I was a dumb kid who would call an overbet with a flush draw. Apparently, he was right.