Re: Ability to Predict a Players Skill based on Intelligence.
 

I'll agree with you on some of your points. I was hasty to use the word many - of the winning players I know it would only apply to a small percentage. But, I think it is a trait that emerges frequently at a table, whether it is from winners or less good players. In that sense, I think I was, on reflection, wrong in ascribing it as a trait that goes with winning players. However all of them tend to be ruthless, and morally indifferent. (That's somewhat different from emotionally indifferent although I think the two are linked). If you think tennis and poker, or tennis and chess are comparable in this sense, I think you have a remarkably rose tinted view. Poker, from what I've seen - and I have plenty of experience - brings out the worst traits in people. Tennis, when played socially, quite the opposite. Of course I'm talking about casino poker here; it's different online. Although even there you come across some truly appalling lines in chat.

Often times poker isn't a particularly pleasant game - doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, but it's very different from most other games.

Re: Ability to Predict a Players Skill based on Intelligence.
 

I don't think it really is.

People always talk about sports as "character building," but I think one of the first and one of the most valuable and lasting lessons kids get out of sports is how the world really works. You're supposed to cheat. All the talk to the contrary is baloney when it interferes with getting your way.

People cheat in sports all the time, and if it's your team, you damn sure don't say one word unless you want to be the pariah of the team, school, district, state, whatever. You don't want to be the guy who finds out what happens when you don't go along with the crowd, no matter if it's stupid, dishonest, crummy or even violent.

Is the ball in or out of bounds? Who cares! If it's better for your team that it's in, then you all shout it's in. If the opposite, you all shout the opposite. The truth couldn't be more meaningless; it only matters if you can't get away with denying it or covering it up.

Kids find out in sports that all the talk they constantly get shoved down their throats about being good, well-behaved little boys and girls makes for a great cover story, and you're supposed to pretend you believe it just like always, but when it comes to cheating, you're expected to hold up your end and either contribute directy or not rat out your friends. Parental behavior and the behavior of coaches is often incredibly nasty even in little league games for the youngest level of children. Even the most innocent seeming sports are where kids find out a lot about what their parents and neighbors are really like, and what competition more often than not is all about.

I really don't think tennis or other adult sports don't bring out the worst in people either. There are fights at baseball and basketball and football games all over the country, and riots at soccer games all over the world, and even among just-for-fun leagues.

If you don't play chess or other games with every intention of beating the daylights out of your opponent, I'd suggest you're not really playing the game. You're playing your own imaginary version of the game.

But since everyone knows what the real rules really are, even if they pretend they are playing differently or wish it wasn't so, they can hardly feel bad about being under the same rules as everybody else.

Poker is not a game where every player wins. That doesn't make it a negative game.

It just makes it yet another game full of the exact same negative potential that people themselves are.

I do think a descent to the lowest common denominator is the norm in most human endeavors, though.

Re: Ability to Predict a Players Skill based on Intelligence.
 

Hi

I only post occasionaly outside the HUSH forum but this is the sort of stuff I find interesting so I thought I throw my oar in. I think there's another factor that hasn't been mentioned which is to do with belief.

I believe in rational analysis and that the laws of probability apply to poker. This seems obvious but I really believe it and always have, I'm sure all good poker players believe this as well.

The thing is that most people don't believe it, some may pay lipservice to it but deep down they believe in lucky seats or lucky people or astrology or fate or ...

In my experience there is litle if any correlation between intelligence and believing probability applies to poker. I know folk with good degress in maths/statistics who deep down believe that if they have been having a bad night then their aces are going to lose this time - and they change their behavior accordingly.

A dangerous related question is: is it rational to belief that probability applies to poker? - do we have a philosophy forum [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

We don't have SAT in the uk but I would claim to be well above average intelligence, highly educated and about average for 2+2. As well as having the right sort of beliefs, my next biggest advantage is recognising my limitations.

Thanks for listening

Making a good player a great player
 

So what aspects of poker turn a good player into a great
player?

1. Reading Hands
2. Psychology
3. Exploiting Mistakes

Intelligence will most definitely help in these three areas
and thus, it is likely that those that excel in poker are
intelligent.

Excelling does not equate with merely winning.

Re: Ability to Predict a Players Skill based on Intelligence.
 

exploiting an opponents weakness' has no other side motivation for me than to play proper poker. the same way I always make my brother go left in one on one basketball. it's just the proper play to win. i dont get extra happiness from their loss, my happiness is purely rooted in playing properly and to the best of my ability at all times.

now i do think some of the people at casinos are complete morons and love to see them go berserk but that has nothing to do with poker its just entertainment cause playing cards for days on end can get really boring.