Re: Maximizing value/Minimizing loss - 200 NL - $400 stacks
 

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Im not going broke here. He could easily have 77 or 22. I call his raise and check/call the river.

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Pot on river will be $320+ which is less than what either of us have left. Would you check/fold to an all-in?

I'm thinking the stack considerations mean that if you call the turn you should probably just push any river.

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No, I wouldnt push any river. The guy might shove all in with AT if you check to him and hes tilting. Do you think hes gong to call YOUR all in with AT?

I have no problem with your preflop raise, but theres no such thing as raising for value preflop with 85s

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Iceman your posts do not compute. First you said you refuse to go broke here, then you say I should be check-calling his river bet. A check-call breaks me!

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I didnt say I refuse to go broke. I said "Im not going broke". I shouldve said Im not sure Im willing to go broke. I havent decided yet at this point in the hand (when he raises)

When you call his turn raise, the pot is going to be about $320 but youre still going to have $245 left. You dont know if hes going to push or not. If he does, you have to make a tough decision. But still, against this guy who is tilting, I would rather call his all in than push myself. Thats the main point Im trying to make.

Also, like I said, I have no problem with the preflop raise, but if you raise EVERY time you open a pot, youre going to get run over by a good player.

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All I can do is pray I never run into this good player you speak of!

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raising every time u open a pot is exploitable, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to take advantage of this. fwiw considering he may be tilting and that is my only read i check call and its not close. i have actually tightened up slightly in 200NL, so much misplaced aggression. players who choose to open raise every pot they play and c-bet 100 percent are easily exploited. misplaced agression defines 200NL party imo.

Re: Maximizing value/Minimizing loss - 200 NL - $400 stacks
 

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Im not going broke here. He could easily have 77 or 22. I call his raise and check/call the river.

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Pot on river will be $320+ which is less than what either of us have left. Would you check/fold to an all-in?

I'm thinking the stack considerations mean that if you call the turn you should probably just push any river.

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No, I wouldnt push any river. The guy might shove all in with AT if you check to him and hes tilting. Do you think hes gong to call YOUR all in with AT?

I have no problem with your preflop raise, but theres no such thing as raising for value preflop with 85s

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Iceman your posts do not compute. First you said you refuse to go broke here, then you say I should be check-calling his river bet. A check-call breaks me!

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I didnt say I refuse to go broke. I said "Im not going broke". I shouldve said Im not sure Im willing to go broke. I havent decided yet at this point in the hand (when he raises)

When you call his turn raise, the pot is going to be about $320 but youre still going to have $245 left. You dont know if hes going to push or not. If he does, you have to make a tough decision. But still, against this guy who is tilting, I would rather call his all in than push myself. Thats the main point Im trying to make.

Also, like I said, I have no problem with the preflop raise, but if you raise EVERY time you open a pot, youre going to get run over by a good player.

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All I can do is pray I never run into this good player you speak of!

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raising every time u open a pot is exploitable, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to take advantage of this. fwiw considering he may be tilting and that is my only read i check call and its not close. i have actually tightened up slightly in 200NL, so much misplaced aggression. players who choose to open raise every pot they play and c-bet 100 percent are easily exploited. misplaced agression defines 200NL party imo.

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You are definitely defining my game. I don't agree that it is "easily" exploited. It's certainly exploitable but most players don't make the correct adjustment. I get tons of free cards and just ridiculous action in general.

Re: Maximizing value/Minimizing loss - 200 NL - $400 stacks
 

It is easily exploitable, and if you run well and choose to move up, you'll get killed doing this. I'm not saying you should completely change how you play, but consider incorporating some of the advice in this thread (as a lot of it is very good) into your game. And if your reasoning is that you can just kill the bad players, then fine, whatever. But, if you can beat everyone you play against at a table, then obviously your winrate will increase and you'll be more prepared to move up in stakes and obviously make more money.

Re: Maximizing value/Minimizing loss - 200 NL - $400 stacks
 

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So I think you and I have established that this is a really interesting/tough spot to be in. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Yeah [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

FWIW I am starting to lean towards the check call line. If he has air here I think he'll bluff his stack off on the river v often.

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Is this still probable when a spade falls? That's 9 cards that she won't as likely bluff (of course, maybe she'll more likely bluff them). I think when you call on the turn, the first thing she'll put you on is a spade draw.

Re: Maximizing value/Minimizing loss - 200 NL - $400 stacks
 

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Load up poker stove and give the other 8 guys some limping hands at small stakes NL hold em. Take a look at how JT suited fairs.

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You get 8 people calling a raise often?