Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly! This thread is a bunch of people backing up Tommy who don't even have $5,000 to use him or wouldn't dream of actually doing it, although they will support the idea of somebody else doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

you cant be serious, there are people with waaay more than 5K who have suggested tommys services. a handful who have purchased his services and who swear by it.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, this thread is obviously just annoying now, but it's just so offensive that you can't get the point that I figured I would try one more time. Let's say, arguendo, that Tommy had never played a hand of poker in his life and didn't even know the rules of poker. But let's say, again just for argument's sake, that he could speak magic words to you which would cause you to never tilt at all and to play your complete perfect game to the best of your ability 100% of the time. How much would his advice be worth? What level games would he be able to beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

TA: Don't tilt.
Me: Ever?
TA: Ever.
Me: Ok, thanks.
TA: That'll be $5000
Me: *tilts*

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OK, this thread is obviously just annoying now, but it's just so offensive that you can't get the point that I figured I would try one more time. Let's say, arguendo, that Tommy had never played a hand of poker in his life and didn't even know the rules of poker. But let's say, again just for argument's sake, that he could speak magic words to you which would cause you to never tilt at all and to play your complete perfect game to the best of your ability 100% of the time. How much would his advice be worth? What level games would he be able to beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

TA: Don't tilt.
Me: Ever?
TA: Ever.
Me: Ok, thanks.
TA: That'll be $5000
Me: *tilts*

[/ QUOTE ]

That is seriously the funniest thing I've read in a while [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I would ever pay for coaching from someone with a lower winrate than me either.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that someone who plays live can have an enormous win rate in BB/100 and still make less than even a mediocre online player. Are you saying someone who plays 300 hands per hour has nothing to learn from someone who plays 35 hands per hour just because he makes less money?

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

Give me one guy who makes over $300,000/year that has bought tommy's services?

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

LOL.. It's amazing how when Tommy osts a hand plenty of people quesiton what the hell he is talking about, but barely anybody here questions the value in his teachings...

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

Yes. Because being better but making way less is a sign that you aren't very smart if poker is your business and not just for pleasure.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. Because being better but making way less is a sign that you aren't very smart if poker is your business and not just for pleasure.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you have never taken a lower paying job bc you liked it more.

since money is allimportant to you you should realize that online poker is a fairly lowly profession in comparison to real gambling (the business world)

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. Because being better but making way less is a sign that you aren't very smart if poker is your business and not just for pleasure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yes, the old "if yer so smart why ain't ya rich?" argument.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

I can't speak for others, but I'm one of the people who have profound respect for Tommy. I've played against him and it's a good thing to do if you like burning money. I've also gotten to know him, and it's a good thing to do if you like getting the most out of life.

I still don't understand how people who don't know the man know how much money Tommy makes playing poker. Or who haven't played against him know about his poker ability. Everyone I know who's played against him says the same thing: don't.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

I own 4 fast food restaurants. I do this for additional income.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

and your point is?

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll throw in $10 for any mod that bans mplspoker. Im sure others will add to the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why, but I laughed so hard when I read this that now my jaw hurts. I don't always dig your posting style NLSoldier (don't worry, not a knock of the content), but when you're on man are you on. awesome.

Oh, and yeah I'll chip in if it would stick.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

God this is one [censored] thread.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I own 4 fast food restaurants. I do this for additional income.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they DQ's?

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I own 4 fast food restaurants. I do this for additional income.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they DQ's?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering the same thing.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I own 4 fast food restaurants. I do this for additional income.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must suck at running fast food restaurants to need to do something for additional income. Remind me not to listen to your business advice.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

Me.

FWIW - It seems obvious that you don't need to know anything about poker, but you sure seem to need to learn a lot about living life. Tommy would be able teach you a great deal about that.

On top of all of that, you make many statements about Tommy's earn and playing style, with no evidence to back it up.

Tommy is a great guy with a great outlook on life and does very well and is happy doing it. I'm sure that he is much happier than you are.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Give me one guy who makes over $300,000/year that has bought tommy's services?

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiosity, which of the following, if any, are statements that you believe?

1) If Player A makes more than Player B at poker, Player A cannot possibly have anything to gain from paying Player B for lessons/coaching.

2) If Player A makes more than Player B at poker, Player B would certainly gain from paying Player A for coaching/lessons.

3) If Player A makes more than Player B at poker, it is because Player B is not as capable as Player A.

4) If Player A makes more than Player B at poker, it is because Player B is not as intelligent as Player A.

5-8) Same as 1-4, but substitute "Businessman" for "Player" and "business" for "poker."

Thanks in advance.

ML4L

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

yes

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

Didn't need the money, but did need something to do with my time.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
yes

[/ QUOTE ]

I have played with one guy at CB who owns DQ's. Nice fellow. But certainly not very good at poker, and certainly not "supplementing" his income by playing, unless he is just totally dicking around at CB and he in fact can play decently online. So the fact you say you supplement your income with poker is a sham, it's quite likely the rest of what you're saying in this thread is just a sham done to drum up a ruckus.

Anyway, if that's you I've played with at CB, and I suspect it is, what you've displayed at the tables there certainly falls in line with your lack of understanding regarding why a successful player could benefit greatly from Tommy, if this whole thread isn't you getting some jollies. I would recommend you admit you're wrong and try to understand why, since it's clear you are incorrect and lack understanding of what it takes to win at poker consistently.

A) You've never played with Tommy before. Some of us, myself included, have. How can you deduce anything about what Tommy Angelo can offer?
B) You are not good at poker. How are you capable of evaluating Tommy's game, or BK's game, or anyone's?

Again, you seem to be a very nice person when in person but what you're saying in this thread is just idiotic.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I totally agree that this dude is a total moron. But the one point that is valid that he appears too stupid to make is that performance and knowledge are for more correlated than they are in basketball, baseball, etc. That said, I do genuinely think that Tommy has something to offer that many players(specifically online players like me) can really learn and improve from. I don't want to hear Tommy's theory on how it's possible that UTG is a losing position or how I should be folding QTs to a raise when 3 people are in the pot and I am in the BB - but that's not the point of these lessons, anyway.
-James

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

I hate to take away focus from the Dairy Queen manager, but is anyone else bothered by Bk's account of why TA didn't think the coaching was a good fit?

If TA is openly proclaiming that the coaching is not customized for the customer, why are so many people still defending the product?

Curious.

-SC

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I totally agree that this dude is a total moron. But the one point that is valid that he appears too stupid to make is that performance and knowledge are for more correlated than they are in basketball, baseball, etc. That said, I do genuinely think that Tommy has something to offer that many players(specifically online players like me) can really learn and improve from. I don't want to hear Tommy's theory on how it's possible that UTG is a losing position or how I should be folding QTs to a raise when 3 people are in the pot and I am in the BB - but that's not the point of these lessons, anyway.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

Your ideas are compelling but I'm really going to need to see your tax return before I decide if they have merit.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I totally agree that this dude is a total moron. But the one point that is valid that he appears too stupid to make is that performance and knowledge are for more correlated than they are in basketball, baseball, etc. That said, I do genuinely think that Tommy has something to offer that many players(specifically online players like me) can really learn and improve from. I don't want to hear Tommy's theory on how it's possible that UTG is a losing position or how I should be folding QTs to a raise when 3 people are in the pot and I am in the BB - but that's not the point of these lessons, anyway.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

Your ideas are compelling but I'm really going to need to see your tax return before I decide if they have merit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, also, I decided to hire Lebron James as my financial advisor.
-James

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
I hate to take away focus from the Dairy Queen manager, but is anyone else bothered by Bk's account of why TA didn't think the coaching was a good fit?

If TA is openly proclaiming that the coaching is not customized for the customer, why are so many people still defending the product?

Curious.

-SC

[/ QUOTE ]

Because Tommy is that much better than most players that it won't matter. From what I can gather, he's teaching things that most players don't think about. Also, if you've already got "it," Tommy will tell you that his teaching won't be worth it to you.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

I must be me you are talking about..i am a nice person, but i just don't agree with what people are saying on here.. at all.. I'll go back and leave my ideas to myself. As far as me knowing little about poker thats fine that you think that... and it might be TRUE.. but i have been playing 40hours+/week for over 2 years online and have made a significant amount of money. I enjoy it and have been financially very successful at it. Will i take advice from somebody making less $$ than me? No. But i'd doubt that will stop me from being successful at this in the future...

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Will i take advice from somebody making less $$ than me? No. But i'd doubt that will stop me from being successful at this in the future

[/ QUOTE ]

depends how you measure success.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

Business/Poker... measure is $$$. Life obviously not but here we are talking poker ... i thought.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

The financial advisor may be true, but it wouldn't be based on networth but average return, and if there results were lower it would need to be due to bad luck.

Would you hire a chess coach that you could beat regularly? What about a Starcraft coach that you pwn easily? The analogy doesn't apply unless there are many factors other than knowledge of the game. There may be worth in still hiring the coach if he knows much more about mental prep, psychology, etc.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to listen to people making more $$ than me and tend not to listen to people making a lot less than me. There is a reason why people are in the spots they are in life.
...
You don't pull up in a limo to get financial advice from someone who just drove up on his bicycle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, if you were successful enough to need a financial advisor, you would know that the vast majority of financial advisors have far less money than their clients.

[/ QUOTE ]

a lot of successful trading strategies have been the implementation of academic ideas (often well-known ones). see eg, Milken and the market undervaluation of high-yield debt over decades (and a more recent hedge fund that was in the paper, arbing value versus growth portfolios market-neutral). those academics didn't make millions. or at least not for themselves. or maybe it is better to throw money at this year's newest hotshot--couldn't just be luck, could it?

PS I take no position on whether Angelo would be a good investment for whoever.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I totally agree that this dude is a total moron. But the one point that is valid that he appears too stupid to make is that performance and knowledge are for more correlated than they are in basketball, baseball, etc. That said, I do genuinely think that Tommy has something to offer that many players(specifically online players like me) can really learn and improve from. I don't want to hear Tommy's theory on how it's possible that UTG is a losing position or how I should be folding QTs to a raise when 3 people are in the pot and I am in the BB - but that's not the point of these lessons, anyway.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

Your ideas are compelling but I'm really going to need to see your tax return before I decide if they have merit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, also, I decided to hire Lebron James as my financial advisor.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt this is a good fit considering his net worth five years ago was most likely less than yours.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you aware that most top athletes (specifically wrt individual sports like tennis, gymnastics, running, etc.) have coaches who they often swear by, but are nowhere near as good at the sport as the athlete who hires them?

Also, you ignored my comment re: financial advisors. Many very wealthy and successful people have financial advisors. Almost all of these advisors have far less money than their clients.

The top actors in the world often have acting coaches who they consider to be invaluable resources. Yet, these acting coaches are rarely considered to be top actors.

All of these people pay huge money to their coaches/advisors.

Were you aware of these facts?

[/ QUOTE ]

The financial advisor may be true, but it wouldn't be based on networth but average return, and if there results were lower it would need to be due to bad luck.

Would you hire a chess coach that you could beat regularly? What about a Starcraft coach that you pwn easily? The analogy doesn't apply unless there are many factors other than knowledge of the game. There may be worth in still hiring the coach if he knows much more about mental prep, psychology, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I just fired my Starcraft coach.

Re: Should BK hire Tommy Angelo?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So who is Chip Reese, Phil Ivey, Barry Greenstein's coaches??? Poker is different this is all mental. I'm sorry but poker isn't any different than business.. I tend to listen to people making more $$ than me and tend not to listen to people making a lot less than me. There is a reason why people are in the spots they are in life.

You don't pull up in a limo to get financial advice from someone who just drove up on his bicycle.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will probably die miserable, confused and alone. Good luck.

NT

since you mention chess
 

Garry Kasparov: FIDE rating 2812, possibly the best chess player who has ever lived.

Yuri Dokhoian: FIDE rating: 2580. Weak, completely unknown GM.

Dokhoian has been Kasparov's coach since 1995. Not too many people know that because he is content to make his living and spend his life helping Kasparov win. He is also much younger than Kasparov.

Here is a picture of them. It says a lot.

http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/even.../007gkyuri.jpg

Re: since you mention chess
 

[ QUOTE ]
Garry Kasparov: FIDE rating 2812, possibly the best chess player who has ever lived.

Yuri Dokhoian: FIDE rating: 2580. Weak, completely unknown GM.

Dokhoian has been Kasparov's coach since 1995. Not too many people know that because he is content to make his living and spend his life helping Kasparov win. He is also much younger than Kasparov.

Here is a picture of them. It says a lot.

http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/even.../007gkyuri.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this qualifies really for a lot of itangible reasons. The type of coaching he gives is different than technical coaching, it's not like Kasparov is asking for technical advice on how to play XX during YY. It's more likely he talks with someone nearly as good as he who can help him evaluate faster, and to have someone who can look over all his play and tell him where he thinks he is failing. I think your example is basically like BK hiring Schneids as his coach. The type of coaching that Yuri provides isn't something TA could do in the format he has, and really that type of coaching is the only type that would be meaningful.

Re: since you mention chess
 

A better response would be, "I was wrong using chess as a counter-example. Thanks for pointing that out."

Re: since you mention chess
 

[ QUOTE ]
A better response would be, "I was wrong using chess as a counter-example. Thanks for pointing that out."

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm wrong, what the hell do I really know about why Kasparov pays him? I'd just be willing to bet that the major reason he is paying him isn't to answer questions he doesn't know that can be answered without computer analysis.
As long as that's true then I'm confident the actual reason is fairly unimportant to this discussion.