Re: A shania post
 

isn't it possible that since DERB seems to play this way... and no one on the 2p2 boards has succesfully identified how he's winning... and everyone seems to dismiss out of hand the possibility that one's play can influence their opponents because "no one pays attention" ... that perhaps people are too easily dismissing the capacity of even donkeys to notice at least SOMETHING?

Re: A shania post
 

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isn't this the idea behind the granny mae?

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the what?

Re: A shania post
 

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Another great tactic would be for you to change your shania hand every session so that observant opponents think you're randomly raising garbage hands from time to time.

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They'd be right, no?

Re: A shania post
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
isn't this the idea behind the granny mae?

[/ QUOTE ]
the what?

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Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: A shania post
 

Personally I think a much better idea that Izmet Fekali talked about a long time ago is raising crap like A-3(s) and K5(s) or q8 (s) in position. He was talking about it in context of a loose game and I think 4 or more limpers and showed through Turbo simulations that it would actually be profitable, but if you knock down the number of limpers and make it a tougher game I'm sure it would become immediately unprofitable. But at least we would be starting from some sort of base. You give up less this way than raising 3-7 UTG so you can employ it more and get your point across rather than raising once every 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and in reallity someone raising k-4(s) after a few limpers is going to get pretty similar notes made as a dude raising pure crap up front. They both are obvious blunders but since ours cost us less we can advertise it more. Plus in position you have a lot better chance of showing the hand down at a cheaper cost which really is the metagame point.

Re: A shania post
 

I've read a few of those posts as well and have recently started doing stuff like this occassioanly UTG after I've been at a table a while and feel like I have a few decent reads on people postflop. I think the key is that no one knows its not a part of your normal range you are raising this time so you need to make sure you cap with the same frequency and don't just give up when 3-bet. Capping gives you way more fold equity.

Ultimately just take down the blinds is a great success--but making some decent hands with your crap can really have great advertising value.

Heres one from earlier today...a lot of the time the flop gives you somehting to work with and you just play poker from there. This is 5 handed and I'm UTG. Awesome table.
Villian is agro fish that ususally goes weak tight to turn and river raises.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Obviously having both the K and Q sucks but this guys 3-bettng range is very wide and he donks almost evey flop.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

And when sketchy stuff like this doesn't work they just think you are the biggest moron ever and cap every street next time you flop two pair to their big overpair.

I know this isnt a mid-high hand but i love the discussion in here and aspire to be here one day soon.

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts as to which hands to do this with. I know I've read some author advocate saving this kind of stuff for your very forst crap s it expands your range without taking away from the good hands you play as it would if you started doing this with stuff like KTo.

I've also read Abdul and Izmet's thoughts on doing this with K2s, Q6s, and I assume that must be what someone said above--so you have some value to build from...however I play alot of 6 max and this angle seems less i mprotant SH as you dont end up at showdown as much.

Anybody else conciously make these plays?

I fear my example above is actually one of going too far and not knowing when to give up--which should likely be after his flop donk--or at least on the turn--at least against a more rational opponent.

Anyways just wanted to put one actual example out there.