You are all way off
 

I'm shocked nobody has gotten this right yet..

The correct ruling is.. OP's friend gets the kick in the crotch. How can he tell this f'ing story and not remember what the actual floor ruling was?! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Oh, and Seat 4 is a tool.

Re: Tricky decision! \"I put you all-in\"
 

I agree. I think the "principle of obvious intent" is real important in these situations. Rarely, if ever, should someone be forced to do something that they obviously did not intend to do, no matter how bad their ettiquette.

al

Re: Tricky decision! \"I put you all-in\"
 

you had all better learn to wait till the person shoves the money forward before acting. tv it might work but in real life poker you are going to get some rulings that would shock you. heed my words.

i have seen a player even push his money in and then take it back after he lost and have the house let him keep it.

i saw a person verbally bet 1500 dollars and only have 1495 and push all that in and the other person call with the winner. then the floorman ruled he gets his 1495 back as he didnt complete the bet he called out.

i have on many occasions seen a verbal bet called and the person making it declare that wasnt what he said and fought hard over the money and the house let him keep it.

as i always say a few times a year --hold your hand until the pot is pushed to you and dont act until the pot is correct with the money in it. do otherwise and the results are up to someone with no interest in you but having the lest amount of confrontation to face.

Re: Tricky decision! \"I put you all-in\"
 

It is quite simple. He made the statement I put him all in following the action of seat 1. His bet is the amount of seat 1 stack. If seat 8 said call then his bet is a call only. If seat 8 said I call all in then this can be considered a raise to all in and the action should continue.

Re: Tricky decision! \"I put you all-in\"
 

Seat 4 bets an amount equal to seat 1's stack.
Seat 8 calls.
Seat 1 acts as he wishes
Floor kicks both seat 4 and seat 8 in the nuts.
The crowds rejoice.

Re: Tricky decision! \"I put you all-in\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
you had all better learn to wait till the person shoves the money forward before acting. tv it might work but in real life poker you are going to get some rulings that would shock you. heed my words.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point as usual. A lot of us who read 2+2 tend to be extra careful but my concern is that poorly written or bad rules combined with staff inexperience/lack of sense is going to create more and more ugly situations, alienating the best customers and slowing the growth of the game.


[ QUOTE ]
i have seen a player even push his money in and then take it back after he lost and have the house let him keep it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any chance for the whole story?


[ QUOTE ]
i saw a person verbally bet 1500 dollars and only have 1495 and push all that in and the other person call with the winner. then the floorman ruled he gets his 1495 back as he didnt complete the bet he called out.

[/ QUOTE ]

One LA club uses a policy/rule where any raise less than the minimum is a "fouled bet" and comes back (most other clubs use a half bet guideline to correct improper raises). IOW player A bets a stack of twenty $5 chips ($100) and player B shoves in two stacks of what looks like twenty chips each to raise the minimum (make it $200). If the stack of player B turns out to be one chip short and the floorman is called to the table the raise comes back. I would hope an extension of this logic isn't applied to the situation you describe but who knows.


[ QUOTE ]
i have on many occasions seen a verbal bet called and the person making it declare that wasnt what he said and fought hard over the money and the house let him keep it.

[/ QUOTE ]

In LA a gazillion languages are spoken and the games are often played in the noisiest part of the club. It happens here.


[ QUOTE ]
as i always say a few times a year --hold your hand until the pot is pushed to you and dont act until the pot is correct with the money in it. do otherwise and the results are up to someone with no interest in you but having the lest amount of confrontation to face.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sad but true.

Good post Ray. Thanks for checking in.

~ Rick

Re: Tricky decision! \"I put you all-in\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of us who read 2+2 tend to be extra careful but my concern is that poorly written or bad rules combined with staff inexperience/lack of sense is going to create more and more ugly situations

[/ QUOTE ]

Another serious problem to add to this is staff I DON'T GIVE A DAMN attitude about outcomes of situations.

For instance, if I made a terrible decision, it would bother me, and I'd want to do a better job next time. But I am probably more the exception than the rule. Many floors just don't really care, their word is final anyway, and they have no real passion for what they are doing.

Since the floor usually makes considerably less than the dealers, and have to put up with a lot more flak, they are often drafted as dual-rates. Even if they are full-time floor, they may not necessarily be highly experienced or even knowledgeable. There's nothing that FORCES a floorperson to KNOW the rules, especially if the casino is desperate to fill the position. Often times it's "take what we can get" when it comes to filling those positions. The person doing the hiring may not know any better either, often times they aren't poker people.

Because of this, don't expect the floor to make the correct calls, make sure YOU make the correct decisions when it comes to things like protecting your hand/action! I have certainly seen some real lu-lu decisions before. We could probably start a whole new thread on decision horror stories, but let's NOT.

al

Re: Tricky decision! \"I put you all-in\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
For instance, if I made a terrible decision, it would bother me, and I'd want to do a better job next time. But I am probably more the exception than the rule. Many floors just don't really care, their word is final anyway, and they have no real passion for what they are doing.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true, for most people it is just a job and they aren't concerend. I made a bad decision in 2000 and it still bugs me.

Re: Tricky decision! \"I put you all-in\"
 

If I'm the dealer, this is easy:

(To seat 8): "Sir, you're acting out of turn. The player whose action it is hasn't announced a bet amount yet."

(To seat 4): "Sir, you can't put someone else all in. All you can do is bet a dollar amount, it's up to other players to call."

Seat 4 can then announce his bet amount, Seat 8 can call/raise/fold/whatever.

Seat 8 gets what he deserves for trying to angle shoot (which he's pretty clearly doing).