Re: Where do you feel your overlay is best?
 

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by far...it's not even close...of course option X

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I love how everyone is so sure of his/her answer. Keep an open mind.

Re: Where do you feel your overlay is best?
 

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by far...it's not even close...of course option X

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I love how everyone is so sure of his/her answer. Keep an open mind.

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sometimes the answer is actually this clear cut though, and an open mind only serves to lessen your abilities. holla

Re: The \"answer\"
 

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PS- Raptor got it right and then told me that he has never been wrong in any thread ever. Feel free to discuss that if you'd like.

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i got it right because the question isnt that hard. then u made me change it so people could vote. oh, and yer a tool. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] holla

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I dont see how easy this question is given its vagueness. Irie said it was a matter of opinion but then said the answer was "clear cut"? Seeing flops 18% of the time doesnt mean much by itself. If its 18%, and passive thereafter, then that's one thing. But if these tighties are super TAG, then I don't know how advantageous this is. Especially if when most of their action will come later at higher blinds.

But I am willing to see how this could be correct.

Re: The \"answer\"
 

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PS- Raptor got it right and then told me that he has never been wrong in any thread ever. Feel free to discuss that if you'd like.

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i got it right because the question isnt that hard. then u made me change it so people could vote. oh, and yer a tool. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] holla

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I dont see how easy this question is given its vagueness. Irie said it was a matter of opinion but then said the answer was "clear cut"? Seeing flops 18% of the time doesnt mean much by itself. If its 18%, and passive thereafter, then that's one thing. But if these tighties are super TAG, then I don't know how advantageous this is. Especially if when most of their action will come later at higher blinds.

But I am willing to see how this could be correct.

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if ALL 9 players at the table other than you see less than 18% of the flops, you are in for a real treat. you will be able to accumulate a sick amount of chips up until level 4, and by the time u get there, you will have whittled everyone down to around 800-850, and you should have a healthy stack.

at this point, assuming everyone is a weak tight player, and seeing less than 18% of flops indicates that a little bit, even if they are just tight agressive, they STILL probably call WAY too tightly in the bb. you will be able to shove with near ease and continue to pick up chips.

sure, some of them will be playing the ideal 2+2 pushbot style, and will be stealing yer blinds in turn, but you are already miles ahead of them, and assuming you play well also, you wont have any problems dealing with them. i much rather have an entire table see less than 18% of flops than ONE person to my left who folds a lot, or ONE person to my right who folds a lot, or 3 maniacs that prevent me from picking up pots early. thats raptors argument.. argue against if u must. holla

Re: The \"answer\"
 

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A SNG against 9 tight opponents would be the easiest to read.


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Re: The \"answer\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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PS- Raptor got it right and then told me that he has never been wrong in any thread ever. Feel free to discuss that if you'd like.

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i got it right because the question isnt that hard. then u made me change it so people could vote. oh, and yer a tool. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] holla

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I dont see how easy this question is given its vagueness. Irie said it was a matter of opinion but then said the answer was "clear cut"? Seeing flops 18% of the time doesnt mean much by itself. If its 18%, and passive thereafter, then that's one thing. But if these tighties are super TAG, then I don't know how advantageous this is. Especially if when most of their action will come later at higher blinds.

But I am willing to see how this could be correct.

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if ALL 9 players at the table other than you see less than 18% of the flops, you are in for a real treat. you will be able to accumulate a sick amount of chips up until level 4, and by the time u get there, you will have whittled everyone down to around 800-850, and you should have a healthy stack.

at this point, assuming everyone is a weak tight player, and seeing less than 18% of flops indicates that a little bit, even if they are just tight agressive, they STILL probably call WAY too tightly in the bb. you will be able to shove with near ease and continue to pick up chips.

sure, some of them will be playing the ideal 2+2 pushbot style, and will be stealing yer blinds in turn, but you are already miles ahead of them, and assuming you play well also, you wont have any problems dealing with them. i much rather have an entire table see less than 18% of flops than ONE person to my left who folds a lot, or ONE person to my right who folds a lot, or 3 maniacs that prevent me from picking up pots early. thats raptors argument.. argue against if u must. holla

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I agree that the other answers were no good, bc isolating one player for a question like this is not as good as generalizing about the entire table. I am just trying to think how 18% of "flops seen" could be used optimally to not be as favorable as you say.

I assume flops seen means just that, IOW, If I push your blind and you fold PF, that does not count, correct?

I just think other assumptions are being made about the 18% that, yes, are usually true, but not necessarily.

But I agree that 4 is better, I am convinced. gj

Re: The \"answer\"
 

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This question was asking for opinions, so there's not really an answer.

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Raptor got it right

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[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


PT stats can be misleading, especially a stat like flops seen in STTs. Don't over-estimate the value of taht statistic especially when it is averaged out over all levels, usually with a tiny smaple size.


In many SNGs very few flops are seen at all in the endgames and when they are (especially at the higher levels) it's all in PF. Seeing 20% of the flops 4 handed would be quite loose usually.

Re: Where do you feel your overlay is best?
 

18% VPIP?

If so, I am going against the grain.

It just isnt enough information imo to go on. This is probably due to my not understanding enough, so I would love to here how this is so fullproof. I don't see how a blanket stat over 10 levels of play can give you any true indication how they play it. I would not want to play in any amount of SnGs against 9 variation clones of myself.

How many people here have a 1k+ sample of SnGs over $1k buy in anyways? 1,2,3 none?

Re: Where do you feel your overlay is best?
 

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18% VPIP?

If so, I am going against the grain.

It just isnt enough information imo to go on. This is probably due to my not understanding enough, so I would love to here how this is so fullproof. I don't see how a blanket stat over 10 levels of play can give you any true indication how they play it. I would not want to play in any amount of SnGs against 9 variation clones of myself.

How many people here have a 1k+ sample of SnGs over $1k buy in anyways? 1,2,3 none?

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Your wanting the tighest table you can get in your situation, which forces the answer to be 4th. Like Ire said earlier, if your table is agressive your going to have to end up playing tight but you dont get to see a great number of hands. Therefore, your likely to not get the cards you need for an agressive table. If ALL of your oponents arnt seeing many flops you must be at a tight table, because if they realized the situation they were in some would lean towards agression later in the game. Choice 1 and 2 are plain stupid because theres no gaurentee they are going to be to your left or right when you get to pushbot mode.

HC

Re: Where do you feel your overlay is best?
 

Wow, has anyone choosing #4 actually ever played at a TAG table?

There is almost always a raise preflop. There is often a re-raise. There might not be a flop seen by anyone for 2 or 3 orbits.

Believe me, you *don't* want to be at one of those tables.

So, like others have said, you really need more information for choices 3 or 4. It could be a weak table, it could be a very strong table, you just don't know.

Absent that information, I'd go with 2. You accumulate chips in SnG by being the first one to push in a reasonable spot. How many times have you been ready to push, then the guy to your right pushes instead, and you have to fold? If I didn't have to worry about that, I'd be happy. The guy to my left should be folding most of the time I push anyway, so that doesn't really help me much.