Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

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Maybe betting the flop for a free turn was a good plan, shrug. I'd never get a chance to define his hand then though, his river bet could be a lot in that line.

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Why would you want to define his hand?? After betting the flop, you check behind the turn unless you hit a straight, and then on the river you call if you have a pair, fold if you don't, and bet/raise if you have a straight.

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

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Is your point that a good player will do this 3bet or 4bet preflop and check flop with both monsters and nothing at all?

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Not good players, but bad ones (this guy is unknown). They 3-bet with J8s because they like putting in money preflop, but the flop comes KTx and they don't like that, so they check with the intention of folding. I've seen this sort of play a fair number of times, but I haven't seen the check as a slowplay particularly often.

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I 3bet with KQ, flop is Axx, I check, they check, I bet turn and they proudly folds their pocketpair.

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Nice example, btw.

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

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Very weak. Bet flop. Bet turn. Check river UI, bet any improvement.

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Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

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No notes.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

completely standard?

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fwiw, with your nut str8 draw + your bd 2nd nut flush draw, it seems to me that you want to see a river for as cheap as possible if the turn blanks; this, since a turn semibluff raise seems out of the question given villain possible monster.

so the thinking may be by betting the flop, you will get a free turn (if needed) a certain % of the time and if you hit the turn you hand may be disguised because you did bet the flop.

even if your flop bet gets raised, your big draws still allow you to get to the river, right?

that said, bet the flop and check behind on the turn if the str8 doesn;t come in.

edit- villain does not appear to me to be necessarily sitting on a monster. i would define it as possible but not likely ~33%. after all hero opened on the button not utg.

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

kiddo, if jay bets the flop and gets called i think jay should check the turn. it means his opponent probably has AQ or AJ which has outs and probably started checking with the plan of calling down.

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

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I know what you're trying to say with this hand, but do you think his flop check followed by a turn bet translates to "AQ or better" at least 86% of the time?

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.. followed by river bet. That's the street that defines his hand a lot in my opinion. The turn bet doesn't change anything, i think that range is the exact same as his flop check range.

I just think it's really likely he has the monster hands. Monster hands are a tiny bit more likely preflop, say 3:2. On the top i think they become a lot more likely, say 3:1 i.e. 3 monsters for every 1 weak. Turn nothing changes, 1:1 here. River about 2:1 more likely.


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So overall you're saying that he's 6 times more likely to hold AQ or better than not? If so, you have to call cause you're getting the right odds.