Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

i call.

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

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so i'm not a huge fan of gaining no information on this card.

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raising solely for information is almost always a bad play in NL....especially when playing live and playing a multiway pot and having absolute position in a hand, calling is a much better play and is actually perfect for a hand like this.....


lapoker,

I think one thing to keep in mind is that you yourself have under-represented your hand - which is a good thing but you didn't take advantage of it.....you flat-called preflop with a very strong hand - much stronger than your opponents would expect given the action.....again, especially given your position and the board, you are in a perfect spot to reap the benefits.....all the hands that you would've let off the hook by reraising preflop and losing on the flop OR raising on the flop and losing on the flop, you will now gain a lot of value from.....you call the flop and let them lead into you, they won't have nearly as much of an idea where you're at and TT will often pay you two streets worth of value bets......also, the pot and the bet were both small on the flop - calling has much equity and you know you will be able to make a much better read with the turn action since they both have to act before you......

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

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So am I to assume you are generally just calling there - or you would normally be raising. I know it depends, but what is more likely for you?

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I am generally calling here so I can figure out if lead bettor has a set.

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

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I agree that calling this flop is bad, you're inflating the pot and gaining zero information.

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Yeah, only if you call and pull up your Unabomber hood.

Seriously, comments like this make me wonder if people respnding have ever played a hand of live poker in their life.

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

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Yeah, only if you call and pull up your Unabomber hood.

Seriously, comments like this make me wonder if people respnding have ever played a hand of live poker in their life.

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Listen, the fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean you should be condescending and just generally act like an [censored]. I disagreed with RBK, and him with I, and incredibly enough, nobody made fun of each other! In fact, he posted things that had value, I tried to do the same. Imagine that, discussion in an open forum.

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

It seems that either calling or raising would work. I just dont understand why you would fold here. By just smooth calling preflop, what other type of flop are you looking for there. I know the sb bet out and that may have thrown you off, but I dont see how you fold here. By calling, since you have position, you will probably be able to find out where people are on the turn and by raising you can get a better idea right then. I mean if you have a good read on sb and put him on a set of 2 pair than its a good fold, but there are too many hands that the sb could be betting out with that you have beaten badly. I think the sb would have to slow down after that flop if 2 people called even if the turn is another low card, he has to give credit to one of u having a higher pair than him. Also, if the sb had a big hand, and since it seems like u have a decent amount of info on him, wouldn't he check-raise the UTG player who would almost definetly bet that flop? I think calling would just be fine and you would be able to gather enough information on the turn to see where to go from there. That way your not risking as much and have a rather big reward later.

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

If you didn't see it, ML4L had one of the few good articles in this month's magazine about this topic.

Raising for Information in NL Hold 'Em

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

At first glance, it seems like if you're going to make the smoothcall preflop, you can't really afford to fold in this situation. You're in position, with a big, concealed hand. 2 factors make this hand difficult: utg raise, sb description as "semi-good, aggressive." What hands does UTG cold call the flop with? I really doubt he does this with AA, KK, or AKc, and the flop is low enough that he basically never has a set. Mostly, it seems the worry is over SB's holding (possibly set or big draw). I think the correct line depends on how good sb is. If you think he's going to outplay you oop, then fold. Otherwise call and play more poker on the turn.

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

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...disagreed with RBK, and him with I, ...

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!

Re: Commerce 10/20 - Unexciting Fold
 

UTG (2k) semi-unkown opens for $80. I ($4000) call UTG +1 w Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Why not reraise? You're OOP vs. the rest of the table but in position to isolate. More important you'll get pretty quick definition on your hand.

If you're in LP or something like that I like the call much more. Even out of the blinds. But UTG2 I prefer a reraise.

Anyone raise that flop. I don't think I can just overcall there, can I?

Why not? Is SB a legit threat to have you beat? If so, then you can fold. But with UTG just calling, I'm suspecting a mediocre hand that probably doesn't have you beat. I'd put in a raise there.

I also don't hate a fold, but FWIW, this is why I think a reraise PF is much better. You've put yourself in a very tough position...PF reraising leaves you with much better clarity.

It was, of course, the fact that SB bet out that lead me to fold. I thought he was capable of doing that with a set, or a huge draw - looking to get it all in.

Are there lesser hands he'll call your raise with? If so I think you've gotta raise that flop. If not then you can fold but I think that's pretty rare, especially for a LAG.

I don't know if you'd consider this result interesting, but they both would have folded [to a flop raise].

In this case I think you can overcall rather than raise. I'd raise the turn then (or bet if checked to)...

- C -