Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
Teach and bang some 17 yr old chicks looking to up their grades [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
ahhh, the days when lindsay lohan wasn't some anorexic, tan in a bottle, bleach blonde mess. Couldn't stop laughing the first time I saw that...but, that clip loses its comedic value the second time you watch it faster then a car ten feet out of a dealers lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

mwap mwap mwap (camera zooms in)

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ahhh, the days when lindsay lohan wasn't some anorexic, tan in a bottle, bleach blonde mess. Couldn't stop laughing the first time I saw that...but, that clip loses its comedic value the second time you watch it faster then a car ten feet out of a dealers lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

mwap mwap mwap (camera zooms in)

[/ QUOTE ]
haha, that was perfect, i didn't realize how bad i set myself up

nice job [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

VERY SERIOUS TAX QUESTION FOR BOB
 

You're in MN, right? Have you looked into the tax consequences of playing full time? More specifically I mean the fact that you cannot deduct your gambling losses from your gambling wins when calculating your state tax (in Minnesota). So if you total up your session wins and you "won" $300,000 and total up your session losses and "lost" $225,000, you'd claim $300,000 in income and have to pay taxes on that amount.

Have you talked with a CPA/tax-attorney yet? Is there a way you can file (possibly as a professional?) to avoid this ridiculousness?

Re: If you were me..............
 

make both your job and poker. Invest your winnings in the stockmarkets and you can quit both in 10 years:). Thats my plan......

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you like teaching? Also, if the poker goes well, do you think you would move up and go for year two?

Taking a leave from my job was an easy decision as it is unrewarding and has no benefits (independent contractor). I know a lot of teachers and, depending on the school system, their feelings about their careers range from love to hate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could use the time away.

[/ QUOTE ]

The summer isn't enough? Man, you teachers are a spoiled bunch.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you like teaching? Also, if the poker goes well, do you think you would move up and go for year two?

Taking a leave from my job was an easy decision as it is unrewarding and has no benefits (independent contractor). I know a lot of teachers and, depending on the school system, their feelings about their careers range from love to hate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could use the time away.

[/ QUOTE ]

The summer isn't enough? Man, you teachers are a spoiled bunch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we are.

Re: VERY SERIOUS TAX QUESTION FOR BOB
 

I have had some contact with an accountant, and he told me that it shouldn't be too hard to prove that I am a professional with the amount of time I put in, plus the fact that it would be my only source of income.

Re: If you were me..............
 

First off you story is real fishy

2nd I doubt you REALLY haver a choice.

So SHUT up and go teach.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
First off you story is real fishy



[/ QUOTE ]

ok

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As far as how long can I go without hating my decision, I really don't know. I have enjoyed the challenge that poker has presented, and I have had some success. It has been harder to convice myself NOT to play, than to play, but I have made myself take days off.


[/ QUOTE ]

This paragraph is very telling. First of all it says to me that you've already made up your mind, and secondly the fact that you say, "it is been hard to convince yourself NOT to play, than to play," tells me that you're addicted.



[/ QUOTE ]

When I was a competetive runner, I often had to force myself to take a day off. Does that mean I am addicted or just driven?

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As far as how long can I go without hating my decision, I really don't know. I have enjoyed the challenge that poker has presented, and I have had some success. It has been harder to convice myself NOT to play, than to play, but I have made myself take days off.


[/ QUOTE ]

This paragraph is very telling. First of all it says to me that you've already made up your mind, and secondly the fact that you say, "it is been hard to convince yourself NOT to play, than to play," tells me that you're addicted.



[/ QUOTE ]

When I was a competetive runner, I often had to force myself to take a day off. Does that mean I am addicted or just driven?

[/ QUOTE ]

Both. And additiction is not necessarily a bad thing.

Re: If you were me..............
 

Ok, we've established that you can 100% return to work. But here's the question... would you?

Let's assume that after taxes, paying for benefits, etc., you make exactly the same as teaching, or a little more. And let's assume you enjoy it more than teaching. Would you go back? I would think you should. Job security, benefits (for family as well, if/when that comes into play), and retirement options. Giving up that job would be a bad move, I would think.

I voted for "Teach, and it's not even close." I think you have a good thing going, and with summer, weekends, holidays, etc., you can still play regularly while still having "you time". Heck, you can even play in the evening if you don't load the kids up with too much homework.

You have a good thing going, and I can't think of a reason that I, if in the same situation (even though I don't know all the details), that I would give up the job.

P.S. - Bonus points for teaching Physics.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, we've established that you can 100% return to work. But here's the question... would you?

Let's assume that after taxes, paying for benefits, etc., you make exactly the same as teaching, or a little more. And let's assume you enjoy it more than teaching. Would you go back? I would think you should. Job security, benefits (for family as well, if/when that comes into play), and retirement options. Giving up that job would be a bad move, I would think.

I voted for "Teach, and it's not even close." I think you have a good thing going, and with summer, weekends, holidays, etc., you can still play regularly while still having "you time". Heck, you can even play in the evening if you don't load the kids up with too much homework.

You have a good thing going, and I can't think of a reason that I, if in the same situation (even though I don't know all the details), that I would give up the job.

P.S. - Bonus points for teaching Physics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post. I have no intention of being a professional poker player for the rest of my life. My leave is for one year, and one year is all i would take. Now, if I won the WSOP of poker, that would be one thing, but that's not gonna happen. (And if it did, I wouldn't have to play anymore, would I? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) Even if I won 150K, I realize that this poker boom won't last forever. I'd just save it. I have learned to live modestly after teaching for 9 years, so I don't need lotsa $$$. I also realize the value of the job security, which IMO one cannot put a price on.

It should be noted that teaching 9th graders can take more out of you than most people seem to realize.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
Think of it this way. If you play poker for a living, what are you going to do for fun? Teach the occasional night class? I don't think so.



This is wierd. It's not like he doesn't have other entertaintment options other than poker. He'll do those in all the extra hours he has when he isn't playing poker for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]


Haven't read the whole lengthy thread.
Just stopping at this part (only on page 2) with the idiotic comment that he won't have anything to do for fun.


I'm in one of those Jon Stewart, "Whaaaaaaaaa??" modes just trying to figure out how to respond to this.

Some ideas for fun might include:
- going out with friends
- going to the movies
- drinking
- having sex
- playing tiddly-winks
- having sex WHILE playing tiddly-winks
- playing the accordion
- having sex while playing tiddly-winks AND the accordion


Strangely enough...the prospects of 'fun' for each of these activities is exactly the same for those who don't play poker professionally as well.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good post. I have no intention of being a professional poker player for the rest of my life. My leave is for one year, and one year is all i would take. Now, if I won the WSOP of poker, that would be one thing, but that's not gonna happen. (And if it did, I wouldn't have to play anymore, would I? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) Even if I won 150K, I realize that this poker boom won't last forever. I'd just save it. I have learned to live modestly after teaching for 9 years, so I don't need lotsa $$$. I also realize the value of the job security, which IMO one cannot put a price on.

It should be noted that teaching 9th graders can take more out of you than most people seem to realize.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then go for it. The situation will never be as ideal as it is now. If nothing else, it's a story to tell. "Grandpa! Were you really a professional poker player?!"

Re: If you were me..............
 

Do both you lazy [censored].

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do both you lazy [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been.

Re: If you were me..............
 

I say live the dream for a year!

Re: If you were me..............
 

I chose teach but it's close.

It was close only because you are single plus have 1000BB bankroll and 5 months living expenses set aside.

I think you are 1 year away from attempting poker as a living. Why?

35 hours each week for 45 weeks is MUCH more difficult to sustain than most people realize. 25 hours each week is a more reasonable goal. When you add time to study and read the forums it quickly becomes a 40 hour work week.

Think of rakeback as a way to pay your taxes on winnings, not as income.

"I have 30K hands at 2/4, 70K at 3/6, and 60K at 5/10 6max. I am over 1bb/100 total." You have 160K hands total and only 60K at 5/10. 60K at 5/10 means little. 150-200K hands at 6max 5/10 & up is a better indication of how well you can beat the game. it is also long enough to experience some horrendous swings and see how you handle them.

WarBus

Re: If you were me..............
 

I dunno dude, I think work is more than just a paycheck, especially when working as a teacher.

Also, whats wrong with working, and still playing?

Re: If you were me..............
 

I think all the info you have posted adds up to a clear conclusion: Give it a shot, and see how it goes. You have a clear backup plan, and you only live once. "Live the dream for a year" as another poster said, and have fun. Use the extra free time from only playing poker to do something you haven't had the time or have always wanted to do (ie travel, take up a hobby, whatever). Good luck to you.

Re: If you were me..............
 

Don't you think your yearly income would be greater by teaching and playing poker casually on the side? I think you manipulate your numbers a bit to make full-time poker look like the best choice but your not including the extra money you would make from poker on the side if you taught for a living. I think this extra money gets you to around the 75-80k mark (5 hours a week, and 30 hours a week during the summer, including a few weeks of holidays), plus having the job security.

I guess it's a fairly close choice, and I think the biggest factor is how you will handle 35 hours a week of poker, and whether you have the motivation to be making sure you put the time.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno dude, I think work is more than just a paycheck, especially when working as a teacher.

Also, whats wrong with working, and still playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The above statements seem contradictory to me. If I teach and play, I'll obviously make more, but I will have very little free time.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]


It should be noted that teaching 9th graders can take more out of you than most people seem to realize.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely....

PB

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno dude, I think work is more than just a paycheck, especially when working as a teacher.

Also, whats wrong with working, and still playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The above statements seem contradictory to me. If I teach and play, I'll obviously make more, but I will have very little free time.

[/ QUOTE ]

The free time is what it's all about. In fact, I really don't know how I got anything done when I was juggling work and poker. Especially considering that I was on call at during odd hours.

It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Just do it, man. Otherwise, you'll just wind up spending the whole school year wondering "what if". You are single, adequately financed and capable. It it was ever the time, it is now.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Teach and bang some 17 yr old chicks looking to up their grades [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Teach and bang some 17 yr old chicks looking to up their grades [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I am now changing my vote to teach and it isn't close.

Re: If you were me..............
 

Do both. Play half that amount (20 hrs), teach and you will make 38 + 52, 90K a year, with benefits.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Think of it this way. If you play poker for a living, what are you going to do for fun? Teach the occasional night class? I don't think so.



This is wierd. It's not like he doesn't have other entertaintment options other than poker. He'll do those in all the extra hours he has when he isn't playing poker for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]


Haven't read the whole lengthy thread.
Just stopping at this part (only on page 2) with the idiotic comment that he won't have anything to do for fun.


I'm in one of those Jon Stewart, "Whaaaaaaaaa??" modes just trying to figure out how to respond to this.

Some ideas for fun might include:
- going out with friends
- going to the movies
- drinking
- having sex
- playing tiddly-winks
- having sex WHILE playing tiddly-winks
- playing the accordion
- having sex while playing tiddly-winks AND the accordion


Strangely enough...the prospects of 'fun' for each of these activities is exactly the same for those who don't play poker professionally as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no need to be insulting.

It's this simple for those of you that don't get the idea. If you play poker professionally, you won't be able to play poker for fun any more.

Everything else you say is obvious. As obvious as what I said.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you play poker professionally, you won't be able to play poker for fun any more.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure this is true. If was a professional blow-job judge, would that mean I couldn't get blow jobs for fun anymore? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: If you were me..............
 

Let me know if there's a job opening for that one, OK?

Seriously though. I hope you will not be as insulting as those other two posters since you started this thread.

Why do you play? Is it still fun? Do you think it will still be fun if you decide to turn pro? What about outside activities that originate from your work environment that you enjoy?

I play for fun and the side benefit is that I win a bunch of money that I can use to do other stuff that's fun and buy stuff that's fun. If I were to play for a living I would be less inclined to feel like the money I win at poker could be used for buying big-screen TVs and high powered stereo. It would be for stuff like groceries and car payments. Big fun.

If you've already made up your mind then you don't really care what I say and if you haven't, I've given you some things to think about.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let me know if there's a job opening for that one, OK?

Seriously though. I hope you will not be as insulting as those other two posters since you started this thread.

Why do you play? Is it still fun? Do you think it will still be fun if you decide to turn pro? What about outside activities that originate from your work environment that you enjoy?

I play for fun and the side benefit is that I win a bunch of money that I can use to do other stuff that's fun and buy stuff that's fun. If I were to play for a living I would be less inclined to feel like the money I win at poker could be used for buying big-screen TVs and high powered stereo. It would be for stuff like groceries and car payments. Big fun.

If you've already made up your mind then you don't really care what I say and if you haven't, I've given you some things to think about.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this just boils down to "why do we work". I have things that I enjoy outside of teaching and poker. I enjoy both. Whether I would start to hate poker if I "had" to play remains to be seen.

[ QUOTE ]
play for fun and the side benefit is that I win a bunch of money that I can use to do other stuff that's fun and buy stuff that's fun. If I were to play for a living I would be less inclined to feel like the money I win at poker could be used for buying big-screen TVs and high powered stereo. It would be for stuff like groceries and car payments. Big fun.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this just boils down to how you approach things and your attitude toward money/work. If you didn't play poker but made twice as much at your "real" job, would you still feel like you couldn't spend money on "fun" stuff? If the answer is "yes", then you may need to reevaluate a few things. I am starting to come the realization in my life that I am gonna die. I am attempting to make everything "fun".

If there is a job opening for BJ judge, it's mine. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am starting to come the realization in my life that I am gonna die. I am attempting to make everything "fun".

[/ QUOTE ]

Religous thoughts aside, there is no destination. This is it, and as far as I know you get one shot at it. Living your life so you wont be uncomfortable when your 90 and about to kick it is a shitty way to live.

Re: If you were me..............
 

You're getting to the core of the matter aren't you?

Do you really want to know? Just between you and me, I have a really cool job that doesn't pay too badly, but twice as much would be nice. If we had more disposable income I would probably have an easier time convincing my wife that we "need" x or y toy. She might buy it, she might not. She would have a definite say in it though.

A little background. My wife leaves my bankroll alone and doesn't even ask about it. She did recently comment though that she is not interested in having yet another set of speakers in the living room (7.1 surround is a little too much for her, go figure).

So despite the fact that money is fungible, what I make at poker is mine, whereas if I were to take home twice as much as I do at work, it would not be mine alone.

Therefore, if I were to turn pro, that would be my income. There would be nothing to replace the poker on the side that I have now that generates income, that I can do sitting in my chair listening to music that I buy with what I win at poker on the stereo I built etc. etc.

Damn, I have a great life. I don't think it would be as good if I were a professional poker player. That's my perspective.

Additionally, there's a whole level of satisfaction I get from coming to work every day and interacting with the people I work with. I actually have the coolest job in the world (I'm a scientist) and I work with some of the smartest people you will ever meet in your life. I don't want to be at work every day, and I don't always enjoy the work, but I think my life would be a little less interesting if all I had to do was get up, fix toast and coffee, and go to the computer.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. If this is right for you, go for it. You're obviously giving it a great deal of thought and you have a safety net. What the hell? Go for it and let us know how it turns out.

If I were a younger, single man knowing what I know now, I might do things differently than I have. Not if I were given the chance to marry the woman I did again. I would do things exactly the same, but you know what I mean.

I want to wax poetic here about how short life is and how you only get one go-around but you know that. You're in a good spot here because you can give this a try and it won't be a disaster if you decide that it's not right for you.

Your move.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're getting to the core of the matter aren't you?


[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda. It's funny how our mind plays tricks on us. "This is money from work so it must be utilitarian. This money is from a side source so we can play with it." I'm not condemning you here, just making an observation. My mind works the same way, and I am trying to get out of the habit. I enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for the response.

Re: If you were me..............
 

Thanks.

I've read some of the rest of this thread now. By your responses to the mostly very insightful suggestions I can tell that you are prepared for this.

You may be one of the few that should give this a try.

One other thing that occurs to me showed up much lower in the thread, and that is the subject of increasing your earn over time. The work equivalent of getting a raise.

I don't think anyone can actually know this, but do you have any sense of where your ability to beat the game might top out?

I realize that we're talking about a year and then re-evaluate, but imagine you're at the end of the year and have tried to move up and discovered that you're at a limit that you can beat but that's as high as you can play and still win. Now what if you could do better financially teaching and playing part time?

When are you going to make a decision? You will let us know? Now I'm curious as hell. I think you'll do it and I wish you all the success you want for yourself as long as it doesn't cut into my action...

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone can actually know this, but do you have any sense of where your ability to beat the game might top out?


[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know. I work pretty hard, and am dedicated to getting better. I am moderately intelligent, so I think I could go quite a ways. I am different than most in that I believe that if one is a 1bb/100 over a large (200K) sample, then that is great. I am not looking to be a 3-4bb/100 winner. IMO this is only sustainable for the short run. (Bicyclekick tells me that he is under 2bb/100 for his total. Now he plays 100/200, so things are obvously a bit different, but I think it illustrates a good point.) I don't need a lot of money. If I could beat 10/20 at 1bb/100, I'd have more money than I knew what to do with. That said, I enjoy all the challenges that poker brings. How to adjust to different players and table conditions, how to assess/exploit/manipulate my table image, etc.

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone can actually know this, but do you have any sense of where your ability to beat the game might top out?


[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know. I work pretty hard, and am dedicated to getting better. I am moderately intelligent, so I think I could go quite a ways. I am different than most in that I believe that if one is a 1bb/100 over a large (200K) sample, then that is great. I am not looking to be a 3-4bb/100 winner. IMO this is only sustainable for the short run. (Bicyclekick tells me that he is under 2bb/100 for his total. Now he plays 100/200, so things are obvously a bit different, but I think it illustrates a good point.) I don't need a lot of money. If I could beat 10/20 at 1bb/100, I'd have more money than I knew what to do with. That said, I enjoy all the challenges that poker brings. How to adjust to different players and tabkle conditions, how to assess my table image, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

The game is fun isn't it?

That's where this whole thing started. Will it still be fun if you have to play?

Under 2BB/100? That implies over 1BB/100. At 100/200 that's f-you money isn't it? Of course I don't think there's a lot of guys 8-tabling 100/200...

Re: If you were me..............
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone can actually know this, but do you have any sense of where your ability to beat the game might top out?


[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know. I work pretty hard, and am dedicated to getting better. I am moderately intelligent, so I think I could go quite a ways. I am different than most in that I believe that if one is a 1bb/100 over a large (200K) sample, then that is great. I am not looking to be a 3-4bb/100 winner. IMO this is only sustainable for the short run. (Bicyclekick tells me that he is under 2bb/100 for his total. Now he plays 100/200, so things are obvously a bit different, but I think it illustrates a good point.) I don't need a lot of money. If I could beat 10/20 at 1bb/100, I'd have more money than I knew what to do with. That said, I enjoy all the challenges that poker brings. How to adjust to different players and tabkle conditions, how to assess my table image, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

The game is fun isn't it?

That's where this whole thing started. Will it still be fun if you have to play?

Under 2BB/100? That implies over 1BB/100. At 100/200 that's f-you money isn't it? Of course I don't think there's a lot of guys 8-tabling 100/200...

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought BK said something like 1.67, but he has run good at the right times (like when he's in the 300/600 game). He play OK, too. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]