Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Still unverifiable.. Unless my results are sub 3 bb/hr, you will not trust my word for my own results, so it's entirely pointless.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the issue that you keep avoiding. Basically, there is little chance you will be in AC and not have 2+2ers around you. I trust them to periodically check up on your chips while you play. Like I said before, if you're serious about this, you would have PMed me. You're playing anyway, your variance is low, etc etc. so the wager would really just be a minimal risk way for you win another $500. As of this writing, no PM.

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you and I just sit at the same game in AC when we are both there, and settle it like gentlemen instead of your childish proposal? We'll meet halfway in limits, 4-8 or 6-12.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not halfway for me. Given that I plan on playing 40/80 the next time I'm there I don't think you want to go halfway. Further:

1. This wager was never about me vis-a-vis you. I stated that I'm running at 2.7 BB/hr live many, many posts ago. I said I'm running hot. This wager is about your claims only. Recall that I'm calling you out on your BS because you've stated just enough in your hypothetical AK to make clear to every half-monkey who reads this forum that your winrate claims are either grossly exaggerated or the happy variance that makes the game so good for solidly winning players (i.e. small winners and long-term losers perceive themselves as big winners).
2. I'm not taking a 3 hour trip each way from from New York to play anything less than 15/30 unless someone gives me a compelling reason, like drinking.

Again, if you want to seriously attempt to work this out and make a wager, PM me. If you keep posting, then we'll all know you're FOS.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

LOL. It's a 5 1/2 hour trip for me..

Since your original offer is unverifiable, I guess it's going to have to end there. My offer is still on the table though.

We can change it up, spread it out over 5 trips if you'd like.. 10 hours a weekend.. so you'll still have plenty of time to play your high limits.

Anything other than a match where we are both sitting at the same table, is nothing but useless fluff coming from you.. and I offered to go up into limits that I don't usually play at.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

OMG! I must watch this [censored] go down.

Jeff

Re: Well sekrah?
 

Obviously, you didn't read my post. No response to my points. Oh look, no PM.

[ QUOTE ]
LOL. It's a 5 1/2 hour trip for me..

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL you don't get it. By playing smaller than I normally do I lose money. By playing bigger than you normally do, if you are a winning player (possible, I guess), you make money. LOL, see? LOL.

[ QUOTE ]
We can change it up, spread it out over 5 trips if you'd like.. 10 hours a weekend.. so you'll still have plenty of time to play your high limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. See, AC is a big opportunity cost for me. I play online too. I make more online than live because I play more tables, more hands, less rake, etc etc etc. Further, like I stated before, the original wager is about your winrate. Not about me. You keep changing it because you are fullofshit.

Again, no PM. Not surprising. Any time I see one, we can start seriously working out ways to demonstrate that you are not a 4-5 BB/hr winner.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

I guess that's a no then.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

I edited my post. You should read it. And respond to it.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

When you come up with a realistic method to verify my win-rate, let me know.. You certaintly aren't going to trust my word for it and I'm not going to be entering the poker rooms shouting, "Excuse me Everyone, May I have your attention please? Are there any 2+2'ers in here?!" And if nobody speaks up, I have to go back up to my hotel room.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

You really should leave 2+2 and never come back. You've been throughly owned and shamed.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]

When you come up with a realistic method to verify my win-rate, let me know.. You certaintly aren't going to trust my word for it and I'm not going to be entering the poker rooms shouting, "Excuse me Everyone, May I have your attention please? Are there any 2+2'ers in here?!" And if nobody speaks up, I have to go back up to my hotel room.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before every trip to AC you announce it in this forum. People volunteer. You meet them. They verify at the your chips before you sit down and note the time. They check periodically to see that you're not secretly rebuying. When you cash out, they do a quick count of your chips. They note the time. They tell me this information; I trust them. Rinse. Repeat.

Later, I buy a big group of 2+2ers noodles one weekend. You stiff me for $100.

Seems easy me. A PM could have saved you the public embarrassment of me spelling things out for you like you're a child.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

Sekrah - you are messing with the noodle rights of many 2+2'ers.... we want noodles, Sfer has promised to deliver them.

Just submit to the challenge and prove us all wrong already. Its an easily verifiable challenge, in fact you might not even have to meet Sfer face to face to complete this challenge, it just needs to be verified by fair and impartial third parties (other 2+2ers who are almost always in AC).

Sfer: I don't like the word "later" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

At what point......
 

.....are we just going to start ignoring this obvious trool? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Well sekrah?
 

Nah I'll pass..

Again, It'll take me a year to get that many hours, and I goto AC for pleasure and fun.. I don't need complete strangers counting out my chip stacks everytime I'm ready to move to another table.

If they want to come and sit with me and just enjoy a game of cards and friendly banter that's fine with me.. They can come back on here report then how much money I won or lost so you can get the cheap thrill you are looking for out of this.

Other than both of us sitting at the same table and colliding, there's nothing else that could peak my enjoyment/entertainment value to make it worthwhile to arrange all of this nonsense.

Hmm.. How about this.. We both go at the same time,.. You play the limit that you enjoy, I'll play the limit that I enjoy, and we'll add up our BB's.. Obviously, it's not the same level of play.. You'll have more quality opponents than myself.

I'll spot you 1/2 BB an hour.

We'll have our 60 hour match, (3 trips, 20 hours).. we'll play at different tables, our own limits, whoever has won the most BB (with you getting 1/2 BB an hour), wins the bet.

I can't say for sure I can consistantly win at 4.5/BB an hour. I haven't said I could (If I did it was probably just to get under your skin). I CAN say for sure that over the past year, this is what I've averaged in my last 70-80 hours of play.

Could it be variance? Sure I've acknowledged that.

This entire argument has ensued from a disagreement over a subjective decision in low limit.

You claim I'm a poor player for making such a horrible laydown.

The only way to settle who the better player is, is to put BB v BB.. You play your limits, I'll play my limits.. We'll both be there so we can both verify the progress of each other. I'll spot you .5 BB/hr for quality of table difference. Hell.. If you want a full BB/hr, I'll give you that!

That's a wager I'll take.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

I'll add.. if you think you can do 2 BB/hr over 60 hours, then you should have no problems disposing me if you don't think I can put up 3 BB!

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Again, It'll take me a year to get that many hours, and I goto AC for pleasure and fun.. I don't need complete strangers counting out my chip stacks every time I'm ready to move to another table.


[/ QUOTE ]

You have complete strangers counting your chip stacks already, I eyeball all of my opponents when I sit down at a table, a 2+2er can do the same. You could just walk over to the official reporter for the day to show him your stack before you cash out. I think your excuse is a complete and total cop out. VERY lame.

Sfers challenge wasn't to see who had the biggest BB/hour, he has nothing to prove about his own personal win rate. It was to prove that your BB/hour claims are false, so new players don't have unrealistic expectations. Win rate discussions have been on 2+2, and within 2+2 books for a long time. Your hourly claims are unsustainable by anyone in the long run. And thats a fact.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Well sekrah?
 

You just don't get it.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, It'll take me a year to get that many hours...

[/ QUOTE ]

I've made it clear why this doesn't matter. You're playing anyway. The wager is just a chance to win $500 on top.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't need complete strangers counting out my chip stacks everytime I'm ready to move to another table.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't need a count except when you buy-in or cash-out. When you move tables they can just glance to look for any irregularly large change in the chips you have. Again, if you PMed me, I wouldn't have to embarrass you with something so obvious in front of the entire forum.

[ QUOTE ]
If they want to come and sit with me and just enjoy a game of cards and friendly banter that's fine with me.. They can come back on here report then how much money I won or lost so you can get the cheap thrill you are looking for out of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not looking for a cheap thrill of beating you. Again, I've made that clear. I just want to point out that you're not a 4-5 BB/hr winner.

[ QUOTE ]
Other than both of us sitting at the same table and colliding, there's nothing else that could peak my enjoyment/entertainment value to make it worthwhile to arrange all of this nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, it's "pique" not "peak." Second, as is clear from your tipping thread, you apparently only care about money. My wager gives you any easy way to make $5 more an hour for nearly zero additional effort.

[ QUOTE ]
I can't say for sure I can consistantly win at 4.5/BB an hour. I haven't said I could (If I did it was probably just to get under your skin). I CAN say for sure that over the past year, this is what I've averaged in my last 70-80 hours of play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You did say it. That must have hurt to write. A lot.

[ QUOTE ]
This entire argument has ensued from a disagreement over a subjective decision in low limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the chronology of the thread again. Also, read the chronology of the retarded tipping thread you started. It's pretty clear that all I'm doing is calling you out for either making absurd claims or for being a cheap bastard.

[ QUOTE ]
You claim I'm a poor player for making such a horrible laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. I said that laydown demonstrates you are not a 4/5 BB/hr winner.

[ QUOTE ]
The only way to settle who the better player is, is to put BB v BB.. You play your limits, I'll play my limits.. We'll both be there so we can both verify the progress of each other. I'll spot you .5 BB/hr for quality of table difference. Hell.. If you want a full BB/hr, I'll give you that!

[/ QUOTE ]

It was never about this. You couldn't come up with the money to make it interesting to me to have a peen waving contest with you. Not to mention the fact that 20/40 and 40/80 are substantially more difficult than 2/4 and 3/6. The wager was entirely about demonstrating that you exaggerate your claims of winning over a sustainable length of time. I keep saying this. You keep trying to squirm out. It's pretty fun.

[ QUOTE ]
Nah I'll pass..

[/ QUOTE ]

Shocking.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

And if you were at my table, and started counting out my stack in the middle of a hand, I would grab your fingers and break them in half.

sfer acknowledges his BB rate is 2.8/hr, but he's running good, so let's say it's 2/hr.. I'm spotting him 1 BB.. and the bet was over or under 3 BB/hr. I'll still need to have more than 3 BB an hour to win the bet.

We will both be there in the same room, with the same amount of extra pressure on both of us.

Over 60 hours, we should be fairly close to our true BB/hr rate? should we not? Or do you want to make it 5 trips, 100 hours? or more? Whatever you want.

My qualifications to this wager is that sfer is in the room playing, and his results will stand vs mine!

Other than that, Stop wasting my time.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stop wasting my time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now THIS is funny.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

It's pretty clear sfer doesn't want to be there when I'm there and he's pretty much being a coward.

That's what's funny.

I've offered a realistic compromise wager that he's repeatedly refused to take for whatever reason.

If I'm passing up all these +EV situations like he claims, then he should have no problem winning an extra $100 while playing his 40-80 game.. He wouldn't even need to think about it except collect at the end of the final hour.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

lol - what a fun thread - sfer, perhaps you've realized by now this is a troll?? please people, stop letting this thread make the first page!

Re: Well sekrah?
 

And, once again you've pretty much missed the point. The point is proving you wrong, which he has methodically done. THe point was not seeing if Sfer's winrate is higher than yours -1 in a completely different game.

The other thing is $100 is pretty much meaningless to SFer. He's not going to inconvenience himself by showing up when you do to earn one big bet. However, $500 is very meaningful to you, which is why if you had any confidence in your claims anymore, you'd take the wager.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And if you were at my table, and started counting out my stack in the middle of a hand, I would grab your fingers and break them in half.

[/ QUOTE ]

EYEBALL. EYEBALL. Boy are you dense. Every good player has a very good estimate of his opponent's chip stacks. Don't be an idiot, this happens every day all the time without other players even realizing it. You don't need to touch the stack to make this estimate. You obviously have anger management issues to make a statement such as that.

[ QUOTE ]
Other than that, Stop wasting my time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been outed as a forum troll by many long time and esteemed posters here, Please quit wasting our collective time. Prove your win rate or disappear.

[ QUOTE ]
Over 60 hours, we should be fairly close to our true BB/hr rate?

[/ QUOTE ] With this statement you prove you have no concept what so ever of win rate, you are not even within a hair of your accurate win rate after 60 hours of play, you won't even be close.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Well sekrah?
 

I'm a coward? Make it worth my while. Up the wager past $5000, no odds, and then we'll talk about a new, HU wager.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

The point is I don't want to go through a bunch of charades to make sure there's always a different 2+2'er around before I can enter a room, change tables, or get up to leave.

It will take a year to conduct this bet anyway, Sfer can show up and do it himself!

If I'm going to bet with somebody.. The person is going to BE THERE WHERE I CAN SEE THEM!

Would you make a bet with somebody you can't see or whom you never met??

Sfer being there, is my requirement for the bet.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm passing up all these +EV situations like he claims, then he should have no problem winning an extra $100 while playing his 40-80 game.. He wouldn't even need to think about it except collect at the end of the final hour.


[/ QUOTE ]

Be real...Sfer uses $100 bills to light cigars. Sfer will spend more than $100 on my noodle meal at NOW, not to mention the (admittedly smaller per person) cost to feed noddles to each 2+2'er who agrees to verify your chip stack. $100 is small. Sfer will spend more or as much as he can make from winning this wager on incidentals to verify your claims, thats why he is an honorable man.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]

The point is I don't want to go through a bunch of charades to make sure there's always a different 2+2'er around before I can enter a room, change tables, or get up to leave.

It will take a year to conduct this bet anyway, Sfer can show up and do it himself!

If I'm going to bet with somebody.. The person is going to BE THERE WHERE I CAN SEE THEM!

Would you make a bet with somebody you can't see or whom you never met??

Sfer being there, is my requirement for the bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is that if you were serious you would have PMed me a long time ago and privately discussed a reasonable way to arrange for this. Since you were never serious, you make excuses, change the bet, offer a different bet, make demands, all publicly. Because you want to save face, not make a bet. My 5K offer stands. If you're serious about that, you'll PM me. No PM, no more responses from me.

Should be good for the Borgata dealers. You'll tip them an extra $2-$3 per weekend if you don't have to worry about keeping your winrate up by every possible means.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

I'm sorry he backed out and didn't want to go through with it.

Maybe another time I guess.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry he backed out and didn't want to go through with it.

Maybe another time I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't apologize to me, I get noodles anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Apologize to the people who actually believed your win rate claims.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The point is I don't want to go through a bunch of charades to make sure there's always a different 2+2'er around before I can enter a room, change tables, or get up to leave.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm, you don't have to do this. I guess we need to "go sfer" on you again and spell it out:

Scenario 1 - You go to play. There is no 2+2er available to record your results. You play and win (of course) and the session doesn't count.

Scenario 2 - You go to play. There is a 2+2er available to record your results. You win (of course) and the session counts.

Keep doing this until you have enough Session 2 hours to reach 100.

Now where's the confusion?

Re: Well sekrah?
 

Sekrah, you have been so thoroughly owned. I love it. This thread could only get better if you somehow died while reading it.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

Try "Hooked on Phonics" little man and go back through the thread.

The debate on the other thread was about whether it was -EV or +EV to make the call in that situation. We disagreed.. I'm told how horrible I am.. Okay. Find.. Let's go at it then.

I challenged him to a match, he cowered back into the corner like a gutless punk.. Then called out on it, he comes back with an large amount of money that he knows I won't match. Whatever, I made a realistic offer for a showdown and he backed out.. I'm done wasting time with this clown.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Try "Hooked on Phonics" little man and go back through the thread.

The debate on the other thread was about whether it was -EV or +EV to make the call in that situation. We disagreed.. I'm told how horrible I am.. Okay. Find.. Let's go at it then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hooked on Phonics eh? Those who live in glass houses...

Sfer is very respected here, he has shown his value many times over to this community. You have shown yourself to make ridiculous statements, to have anger management issues, and additionally your obvious lack of understanding of key concepts.

So who is the little man? Please tell me again, because its yet another thing you are obviously wrong about.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Well sekrah?
 

http://www.punogre.com/images/other/sekrowned.gif

Re: Well sekrah?
 

He deserves no respect. He's proved himself to be all talk, no action.

You can make this an issue about whether I can maintain 4-5 BB all you want. Maybe I can, maybe I can't.. I'm not going to make a ridiculous wager on it with somebody who I'll never meet.

To me, this is an issue comes right back to my TPTK laydown that, WITHOUT A DOUBT, ACCORDING TO GENIUS SFER, WAS A HORRIBLE PLAY!

And you can't expect to make alot of profit passing up so-called +EV situations.

He challenges my playing style/playing ability.. The only way to fix it would be a match against each other.. he doesn't want that.. He has legitimate reasons not to want it, FINE!

I have legitimate reasons not to play his silly bet.

I can only state for a fact what I've earned over my past 80 hours.. Maybe I'm running hot, FINE! I've already, several times now, acknowledged this. You need to make a wager to prove it?

We will never get a match together, so it's a moot point!! I've wanted to end this discussion A LONG TIME AGO, but the REAL trolls continue to plop it back up, challenging my results with this absurd proposal that would prove nothing.

If you won't accept the challenge.. FINE.. you've got your legitimate reasons not too.

I got legitimate reasons not to accept yours!

GET OVER IT CLOWNS!!

Re: Well sekrah?
 

LOL.. The fact that I got you to waste 10 minutes making that, makes it all worthwhile

LOL.. What a dork.

Re: Well sekrah?
 

LOLOLOLOL It took me less than one minute. LOL

LOL LOL!

Re: Well sekrah?
 

Ha Ha Ha Ha.. Oh Man.. the Jokes on me I guess.. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha!



LOL

Re: Well sekrah?
 

Sekrah, I know you'll never accept a bet that would show you are wrong, but will you at least let someone meet you and take a picture of you because I can't believe someone like you really exists.

Do it online
 

This is stupid. Do it online. Play .50/1.00 to simulate the 3/6 environment. Create a dedicated PT dB. Before any hands get played, he must send an email to sfer. When he finishes a session, he must send an email to sfer. Every day, he must email the "account activity" screenshot on Party to sfer, which shows starting and ending stacks as well as the time that a session started/ended. Between all of this data, sfer should be able to verify that all played hands were counted. At the end of 10000 hands, the bet is over.

Re: Do it online
 

Except for an occaisonal MTT, I don't play online.

My strengths are my reads, not mechanical play. I prefer live play. The entire discussion and dispute of me laying down TPTK was based on my reads.

I can guarantee you, my BB per 100 hands would be lower online than it is in live play. I'm not a good online player.. No reads, too many other distractions around the house, and no interest in competing against data miners are the primary reasons.

I'm good in live play because I'm good at determining how strong (or weak) everybody at the table is. I don't put people on a "Range" of hands.. I put people on A HAND!

Re: Do it online
 

Well even if you're not going to do the bet with sfer, at least give us a HU when youre next going to AC b/c Im sure people would like to sweat some hands with you and/or play at the same table to get a first hand view of your hand reading abilities. Just out of curiosity, which Oakleys work best when peering into a man's soul? I personally prefer the half-jackets, in jet black Iridium, but they're so dark that sometimes I can't tell whether he is holding spades or clubs.