Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

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...FPPs that we may give you for completing surveys, etc.

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Do you eat beans?
Would you like to see a new movie starring George Wendt?
Would you like to eat beans with George Wendt?
Would you like to see George Wendt eating beans in a movie?
Do you eat beans at George Wendt movies?
Would you like to see George Wendt in a bean eating movie?
How many beans do you eat at George Wendt bean eating movies?
How many bean eating movies have you seen with George Wendt?
If you were a bean what kinda bean would you be?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...FPPs that we may give you for completing surveys, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you eat beans?
Would you like to see a new movie starring George Wendt?
Would you like to eat beans with George Wendt?
Would you like to see George Wendt eating beans in a movie?
Do you eat beans at George Wendt movies?
Would you like to see George Wendt in a bean eating movie?
How many beans do you eat at George Wendt bean eating movies?
How many bean eating movies have you seen with George Wendt?
If you were a bean what kinda bean would you be?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

what kind of bean would George Wendt be?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

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we are assuming that the ticket that you get for the higher events allows you to unregister for the T$.
But we don't know if they are giving some sort of a 'different' type of ticket that you can't trade in for T$.
It's uncertain and we shouldn't assume that it is the same as we it always has been

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No, you probably wont be able to unregister for T$ with the VIP tickets you buy, but I was saying you could still just play the regular satellites (like the 9 person 3600 FPP one) and then win and unregister.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

My short answer is:

No.

My slightly extended answer is:

This can only be good. This will encourage other sites to step up to the plate in a similar manner and someone out there could concievably come up with a much better deal. Someone else might even start allowing something similar to (gasp) the unmentionable through their affiliates once more to get their players back. In the meantime, I can only see a certain website hemoraging ring players, since they got rid of that unmentionable thing and all. Reminds me somehow of a saying about chickens coming home to roost.

Stars $5/$10, here I come. Does anyone know if they fixed the HH's to distinguish short handed from full ring yet?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Its still not clear to me why this program would keep high volume players playing after they have achieved Supernova status (and access to the 2 milion+ in freerolls for the year), potentially in Jan or Feb?

It would seem like the program ecourages a rush to Supernova... and then encourages you to chase better promotions at other sites the rest of the year!

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

We'll have to wait and see how the freerolls are.

I have no interest in playing against 2500+ other players for a shot at $5. If the freerolls are somewhat exclusive and only have a field of a couple hundred players, they could be fun when I am actually around to play in them. I'd prefer it though if they didn't have any freerolls and used that money to make the FPP's worth more.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

When you reach Supernova you get 3.5 times FPPs for your play on your way to Porche or WSOP or Monte Carlo, etc.. So say you are S & G player - playing $50+$5. You are getting 87.5 FPP each tourney. Assuming 1.6c each FPP, you get $1.40 or 28% RB with no deductions for bonuses and no dependency on affiliates. This deal is not easy to beat.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

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I doubt [the VIP Club freerolls] will pay super-flat though (unfortunately). I expect it to be the same as their typical pay-out structure for all of their other tournaments which would be to the top 10%.

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Bad read [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] They are going to have a very flat payout. The exact structure is TBD, but tourney-meister Henry is working on it as we speak. Don't hold me to this, but I'm setting the line at a 22.5% payout structure.

I also note that (as others have pointed out), we are telling you in black and white how things work. That you have to accumulate X FPPs to get Cool Thing Y. And here's how you accumulate those FPPs. Transparency forces a bit of conservatism on us, since we're making you a promise: do this and you'll get that. I will also tell you that a year from now, everything that we say here will be true - or better. [1]

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The $10k freerolls for supernova players might be around 100 players or so for $100 in value per entry.
Obviously it's more value if there are fewer players and/or some of the players just don't plain show-up (which strikes me as likely...happens a lot in freerolls).

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Read the fine print. The prize pool for the Supernovas goes up $2K every month. If it averages 100 players in each event, you get $100 in equity the first month, $120 the next, $140 the third... $260 equity in December.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all, a good night.

Best regards,
Lee Jones

PokerStars Poker Room Manager

[1] I hope everybody understands that there are things far beyond my control that could change that. But I will promise you that it is the absolute intent of everybody at PokerStars to make the VIP Club the best (and best documented) customer rewards program in the industry.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Thanks for the response Lee.

In regards to:


"
The $10k freerolls for supernova players might be around 100 players or so for $100 in value per entry.
Obviously it's more value if there are fewer players and/or some of the players just don't plain show-up (which strikes me as likely...happens a lot in freerolls).



Read the fine print. The prize pool for the Supernovas goes up $2K every month. If it averages 100 players in each event, you get $100 in equity the first month, $120 the next, $140 the third... $260 equity in December."


I am assuming there will be more super-nova players as the year prgoresses...so while the prize-pool will be larger, there should also be more playing in them.



To Sniper's question...I think the only real incentive to play is AFTER you reach supernova status.
It's at that point that you really start acumulating the points and they begin to get some real value.

You first major tourney entry you are probably getting about 4-5 cents per raked-hand in value.
for your 2nd tourney entry you are probably getting 7-8 cents per raked-hand in value.


So I would rush to Supernova status SO that I could play more (and earn enough FPP's for 2 or 3 tourneys...WSOP, EPT, PCA, whatever).


I kind of look at the first 100k raked-hands as just the 'qualifier' part. It's just the part to get out of the way so that you can get into all the groovy freerolls and get to what are REALLY the best parts of the club.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Read the fine print. The prize pool for the Supernovas goes up $2K every month. If it averages 100 players in each event, you get $100 in equity the first month, $120 the next, $140 the third... $260 equity in December.

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Any chance of making some of these limit tourneys. Especially at the higher levels. I mean NL players are going to have a distinct advantage in these tourneys.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

So once you get to be a goldstar or platinumstar, do you have to play the same ammount of raked hands every month in order to keep your status? Same question for supernova. Once you get 100k fpps are you a supernova forever, or do you have to earn 100k fpps every year?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

If you become Gold in March, you'll remain gold for the rest of March and for April. If you don't earn enough FPP during April to reach Gold again, you'll go back down to whatever level your FPP earnt you in May.

Once you're Supernova, you remain that for the rest of the year, until the status is reset for January, no matter how many FPP you earn.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I like not having to guess if and when this system has value. I might just close the ole poopy acct, F them. Kudos Sir.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I agree that this is the most attractive aspect of this system.

The more I consider teh value of the freerolls combined with the value per raked-hand the more I'm seriously considering dedicating a lot of time there (again....this is contingent on whether I decide the games are acutlaly good).


I was mostly looking at just the major tourney packages...but if I look again at the gift-shop and see all those amazon gift-certs or other things and it looks like some of the options are 'pretty close' to cash (if I wanted that instead) then that will make it even better.

as others have pointed-out...other sites with RB give you straight-up cash but I'm willing to accept 'mostly' cash should one want that (particularly as a back-up to running badly).
Wal-mart gift-cards or something like that would be a decent option too.

Groceries and other stuff: I need
Ipods and super-duper monitors: I don't need

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
To Sniper's question...I think the only real incentive to play is AFTER you reach supernova status. It's at that point that you really start acumulating the points and they begin to get some real value.... You first major tourney entry you are probably getting about 4-5 cents per raked-hand in value. for your 2nd tourney entry you are probably getting 7-8 cents per raked-hand in value.

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You are certainly getting value compared to Stars before, but...

You can get > .10/raked hand cash value from rakeback+bonus at other sites.

FWIW, if I was to suggest an enhancement, it would be that the Supernova status should be on a rolling 12 month basis, rather than reset to 0 each Jan.

I also want to acknowledge that I think its great that Lee chose to comment in this thread... and that Stars is clearly setting the bar on what a VIP program should look like!

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To Sniper's question...I think the only real incentive to play is AFTER you reach supernova status. It's at that point that you really start acumulating the points and they begin to get some real value.... You first major tourney entry you are probably getting about 4-5 cents per raked-hand in value. for your 2nd tourney entry you are probably getting 7-8 cents per raked-hand in value.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are certainly getting value compared to Stars before, but...

You can get > .10/raked hand cash value from rakeback+bonus at other sites.

FWIW, if I was to suggest an enhancement, it would be that the Supernova status should be on a rolling 12 month basis, rather than reset to 0 each Jan.

I also want to acknowledge that I think its great that Lee chose to comment in this thread... and that Stars is clearly setting the bar on what a VIP program should look like!

[/ QUOTE ]

that is really really good idea. I could not agree more with the concept of making supernova 12 months rolling. that seems to make it much more worthwhile especially for a player who might not make it until OCT/NOV/DEC

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I'm glad Stars is trying something. They got a bunch of things right that I expected them to. Like making everyone a VIP, and making it easy for a player to predict what reward they could get for their level of action.

I wish though that they counted faster accumulation of FPP's toward qualifying for the next level, even if that meant setting the Gold qualification to 6000 and Platinum to 20,000. This is the only thing Party got right. With Stars method, I can ignore them, then if I ever feel like it, just play for a month and get Platinum just as easily as if I had been Platinum for years. I don't play at the stakes/hours to get Platinum anyway, so there is limited draw for me. If my volume varies from month to month, then I would be bouncing around between levels, and I'd just rather play the extra I need to maintain my level in a month where I'm busy. As it stands, no.

Freerolls, meh, take too much time. Goods at list price where I would normally expect a 40% discount, meh. Tickets to 200+15, okay now that's a very good and needed add.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Is there a $100,000 Supernova freeroll for the month of January? I can't imagine that too many people will be able to play 100,000 raked hands in a month. For someone who could actually do it, I think it would be pretty high +EV being the only one in the tournament.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

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Is there a $100,000 Supernova freeroll for the month of January? I can't imagine that too many people will be able to play 100,000 raked hands in a month. For someone who could actually do it, I think it would be pretty high +EV being the only one in the tournament.

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No it's for all players that reach Gold. Silver players can get in through satellites. There's supposed to be one every month too. That would probably be worth it.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Yes, to be honest, I doubt that PS wanted to see the thread RE: VIP programs called "getting screwed"...

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

It doesn't start for a few months. Off the top of my head, I think the first ones are in April.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

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It doesn't start for a few months. Off the top of my head, I think the first ones are in April.

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That's just the supernova weekly tourneys. The 100K monthly is all 12 months.

http://www.pokerstars.com/vip/tournaments.html