Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

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If u don't get it all in here then fold 66 pf.

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duhhhhhh this is terrible reasoning

villain gave us a lot more info post-flop then pre-flop to consider folding 66 on this flop

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so u guys would fold this here?...I see all kinds of stuff besides KK+JJ in this situation.

Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

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so u guys would fold this here?...I see all kinds of stuff besides KK+JJ in this situation.

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Exactly, you see all kinds of stuff other than KK/JJ at this level.

Assume villain minraised another 35, SB is pot committed for his last 20, so there is 163 in the pot with 150 left. You are getting a little better than 2-1 with a push.

It would be hard to fold getting 2-1 at this limit with the villain's description of: "not the best of players".

You will occasionally see a set here, but not often enough to justify the fold. If this was a higher limit against a passive nit who never gets out of line, then fold, but not here.

Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

I never said I'd fold, but I might. It (obviously) comes down to a read; in the moment, I might get a strong feeling about what I should do. I usually go with those feelings. If I don't get one, I stick it in and river quads if necessary.

Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

Oh I definatly had a VERY strong feeling. But like Yvesaint, my penis said push. I called out villain's hole cards in chat before pushing, and he flipped them up to my amusement. UTG+1 = KK, SB = JJ for Set over Set over Set action. I really couldnt imagine uTG+1 playing AA or AK like this. I felt he would raise SB's weak lead with either of those.

Villain's line shows just about as much strength possible, and its usually not 1-pair here EVER from my experience, unless villain is a complete donkey, and like I said, this villain had not been getting out of line much. If only I were good enough to go with my read. I'll never be like Barry [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

yea, ive only had 2 hands against me to base this from, but from what ive seen in pots i havent been involved in, a cold-call of any sort of bet followed by a min-raise on the same street is almost always a set.

Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

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If u don't get it all in here then fold 66 pf.

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Worst oft-given advice ever.

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Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

I just can't agree with this. Even on-line, you should be able to read certain players.

Recent hand where I kicked myself for not listening to myself (as opposed to the people who say never fold a set):

I'm on the button with pocket 8s. A min raise in EP, a ROCK in midposition pushes it up to 8bb. Since we're both full stacked I call. The minraiser calls. Flop comes 8 J Q. Minraiser makes a wussy lead... ROCK checks (which I remember thinking didn't seem what I would expect considering his raise)... I put in a real raise, the minraiser calls it, and the ROCK now checkraises. I told myself, "I knew it... if he had an overpair he wouldn't play it this way." I KNEW he had a higher set and I knew he expected me to call.

Then you hear that oft repeated 2+2 voice.... "never fold a set"... and I grudgingly went against my every instinct AND what I thought was very obvious info being given out.... So I push, minraiser folds and the ROCK insta-calls. Of course he had the top set.

My point... with a rock; considering the raise pf, and the checkraise on the flop (after a bet and a raise)... this was ONLY a set.

For absolute beginners... I would say the 'never fold a set' advice (unless you have a set of 10s on a board of 10JQsuited...) is fine. But for those trying to develop their game, its bad.

The fact of the matter is a lot of people play sets in very predictable recognizeable manners. And a lot of people are very predictable. After playing for awhile, if you can't put certain players definitely on sets once in awhile, then you're not developing proper hand reading skills.

Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

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After playing for awhile, if you can't put certain players definitely on sets once in awhile, then you're not developing proper hand reading skills.

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Agreed, but with hero getting better than 2-1, do you really think at 200NL that it will be set over set at least 2 out of every 3 times?

If it was even money or villain was a nit, it would be an easy fold, the odds are the only reason I would call once hero finds himself in that spot.

Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

Hmm, another hand I just witnessed on Bodog, QJ7 board, QQ vs JJ vs 77, I think this is happening slightly more often than odds would dictate [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Spider senses are tingling
 

OMG ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED.

I lose my ass on this hand too, I suck at folding sets.