Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

You have received a ton of good advise so far. Reads are a must when playing 6 max. There is a distinctly different pace of this game and you marginal hands need to be played properly as this is were a lot of your profit will come from. Also, any leaks in your game will be magnified with every extra table you play, so be sure to plug some of these before getting too crazy multi-tabling.

Props once again to MrWookie with this must read:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...t=1#Post2913856

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

[ QUOTE ]
let me be more specific. let's say i have AK and am going up against the BB and the flop comes 2 6 7 or something and he bets out. how can i call that if i don't have pot odds since the pot's like $5. that seems to be such a common situation here. i'm almost always raising of folding here. is that wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

I really depends on your read and what you expect him to do. I wouldn't be folding much here. I'd mostly call and see a turn. Raise sometimes if the opponent is often FOS. The turn is usually were you face the hard choice because it extremely read dependent.

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

Just looked over a bunch of replies. Here's my two cents:

Everyone who says don't play 6 tables is correct--at least to start. I think 2 tables is a good way to go to begin to learn the flavor of the short-handed game. Your goal should be to up your bb/100 before moving up in number of tables. I think getting up to 4+ tables is okay once you can keep your winrate up. Just do it gradually.

My sample of hands--845--is admittedly small, but here are my results:

VPIP-22.42
Fold SB to steal-100
Fold BB to steal-92.31
(I think those are really skewed, as I've seen a lot of 92o, 74o type of hands in the blinds. I actually have a 5 bb/100 rate in the big blind. But I know I need to play more from the blinds.)
Att. to steal-18.66
W$WSF%-33.06
Went to SD%-24.08
Won$at SD%-66.10
PFR-11.36

That's netted me a 2 bb/100 winrate.

I don't agree with the comments that say your PFR needs to be higher. I'm playing MEbenhoe's starting hands guide.
And I can't see increasing my PFR by another 50% to 16 or so.

I agree that your flop aggr factor should be lower. This may be the most telling stat of all, as it exposes postflop play in a way the rest don't. Mine is 4.22.

And from experience before I dropped down and got serious about learning how to play short-handed, the PP $3/$6 is a very juicy game.

Of course, I just started playing, so all of this could be bullcrap. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just looked over a bunch of replies. Here's my two cents:

Everyone who says don't play 6 tables is correct--at least to start. I think 2 tables is a good way to go to begin to learn the flavor of the short-handed game. Your goal should be to up your bb/100 before moving up in number of tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is incorrect. Your goal should be to have sufficient bankroll and be confident in your game. Win rate is not a measure of how good you are until you reach into the 6 figures in terms of hands at a given limit.

[ QUOTE ]
My sample of hands--845--is admittedly small, but here are my results:

[/ QUOTE ]

It's completely useless not "small." I'll do a little experiment to show you why. Let’s assume you're a 2 BB/100 winner. Since I don't know you're SD I'll use mine 17.6 BB/100. Therefore you’re SD per session 51 bb/100 and your EV is 16.9 BB. Here is a hundred sessions of 845 hands (results in BB):

18.08
1.80
-41.43
70.97
43.28
54.05
4.13
16.98
64.02
-4.64
128.32
2.87
5.94
19.44
-44.28
88.94
-39.29
-60.05
-36.10
77.09
-12.76
57.04
-85.66
86.50
71.62
-110.88 bet you wouldn't have made this post after that one
-79.53
92.21
8.30
-13.72
-12.69
45.15
-1.91
-37.86
-3.90
103.40
57.66
-83.36
-58.27
48.03
-62.47
43.73
85.39
-6.44
-46.15
-24.33
-2.54
-37.48
22.36
62.55
71.48
-17.95
-17.92
37.22
9.07
47.00
39.82
178.87
-18.80
-87.67
22.17
66.43
10.63
72.33
-12.99
45.91
120.50 Move up to 100/200 immediately.
-8.95
182.43
-94.98
3.41
-45.61
77.42
90.05
113.34
-4.69
81.06
29.65
62.04
-55.31
-14.86
3.33
-24.46
-38.12
66.36
44.16
109.24
18.49
-6.06
7.24
61.86
29.41
-9.91
35.89
-13.07
46.91
-30.41
-14.07
35.72
10.39

[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree with the comments that say your PFR needs to be higher. I'm playing MEbenhoe's starting hands guide.
And I can't see increasing my PFR by another 50% to 16 or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

16% is the minimum. Mine is 19%. 11% is not optimal. It just isn't.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that your flop aggr factor should be lower. This may be the most telling stat of all, as it exposes postflop play in a way the rest don't. Mine is 4.22.

[/ QUOTE ]

which is also absurdly high

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

Your fold SB to steal looks REALLY low but it could just be sample size.

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

Hi Cadence-

You gots some issues to work through with your stats - although of course less than 20k hands doesn't mean much, less than 10k isn't helpful, less than 5k is insignificant so 800something is a pittance.

Here's the deal: Defending the SB from a steal should equal your PFR at least. Defending your BB from steal should be at least your VPIP if not more. You should be 3-betting or at least calling (3-betting is better) A8o+, K9+, some suited connectors and 44+ from the SB. This would really help get your PFR up; anything less than 16 is a mistake.

Also, you need to steal more. Below 30 % is marginal, 18 % is really, really bad.

Of course you could be playing completely differently ... but this is all the commentary I can give when you're posting about less than 1000 hands.

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

[ QUOTE ]
Defending the SB from a steal should equal your PFR at least

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL Where did you get that?

[ QUOTE ]
Defending your BB from steal should be at least your VPIP if not more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way wrong. FBBTS should be in the 50-60 range not the 70-80 range.

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

One of the things that makes PFR lower in the .5/1 and 1/2 games is the ridiculous amount of open limping going on there. There will be many times on the button where I have a good stealing hand (say, Q8s), but 3 people have limped. I don't ever see value in a raise here, so I usually just call. Those of you at high stakes dont have this problem. Just my observation.

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

Hey leader I have no problem being proved wrong with anything. But one line responses are stupid. If I'm wrong, say why, don't just be a cock. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

I read the SB defend = PFR in several threads stickied up at the top, and it makes sense because you've already got money in the pot and you're trying to get more value out of the same set of hands you'd steal with yourself.

As for BB, I was starting conservative. If he defends = to his VPIP that's a good start, don't you think?

Re: Party 1/2 beginner help
 

[ QUOTE ]
One of the things that makes PFR lower in the .5/1 and 1/2 games is the ridiculous amount of open limping going on there. There will be many times on the button where I have a good stealing hand (say, Q8s), but 3 people have limped. I don't ever see value in a raise here, so I usually just call. Those of you at high stakes dont have this problem. Just my observation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the difference between a 21/16 player and a 26/19 player is greater blind defense and increased iso raises. You will generally have a lower PFR at the lower limits for a verity of reasons among them the one you mentioned. Still 11 is pathetically low. you should be able to find 16%. Also the second stats poster in this is playing 3/6. That's were I play and I know you can find raises more then 16% of the time there.