Re: Long Time No Post : AJo on the Button
 

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and I would like to extract value somewhere if it's possible to at some point. That point is the river, where I can fold to a 3bet very easily and clearly.

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I'd like to add that you'll very rarely be 3bet even with hands that have you beat once you raise the river. It goes with what you said but I think it's an important point in hands like this.

Re: Long Time No Post : AJo on the Button
 

I don't get why this is any better than the other options. I can see why it is worse, allowing draws to get in with fewer bets on the flop and turn, and getting less info about the opponent's hand.

This looks like a slow-play to trap an aggro. I don't like that here as a routine approach.

Re: Long Time No Post : AJo on the Button
 

Well analyzed. I think GOT is off on this one.

Re: Long Time No Post : AJo on the Button
 

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I don't get why this is any better than the other options. I can see why it is worse, allowing draws to get in with fewer bets on the flop and turn, and getting less info about the opponent's hand.

This looks like a slow-play to trap an aggro. I don't like that here as a routine approach.

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It's not a slowplay at all. Read GoT's analysis at the end of the thread if you haven't already; the large part of this is that while you're possibly ahead, that turn card wasn't great for you given A) his flop checkraise (often a weaker hand -- of which hands like T9 etc. will often be in his range), and the fact that we can't fold to a turn 3-bet.

Rob

Re: Long Time No Post : AJo on the Button
 

I have read the GOT response. I didn't say it was intended to be a slow play, but in the end, that's what it turns out to be.

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There haven't been that many bets put in so far. The guy defended his blind versus a Button isoraise and check-raised the flop. He doesn't need to have an Ace here, though he probably will most of the time he has a pair. The reason not to raise the turn here is because we cannot fold to a 3bet. It is not super unlikely he has us beat. The two-pair hands out there are ones that will def be in his range here, and getting 3bet sucks here given the size of the pot and the fact that I cannot fold the turn. At the same time it's not highly unlikely I could be beat here, it's also not highly likely I am, and I would like to extract value somewhere if it's possible to at some point. That point is the river, where I can fold to a 3bet very easily and clearly. Aces are still calling here, as my hand up to this point looks nothing like a strong Ace, and I would not be surprised at all if he couldn't fold a T which he decided to bet for value on the river.


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So let me follow the logic during the play of the hand. I assume that you stop-call the flop raise, with a plan to go-raise further along. So the appearance of the "9" (and maybe other cards?) on the turn makes you decide that because you would have to call a 3-bet, it is better to save the raise for the river?

I just love these sentences:

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It is not super unlikely he has us beat. ... At the same time it's not highly unlikely I could be beat here, it's also not highly likely I am, and I would like to extract value somewhere if it's possible to at some point.

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Talk about confusing things to make your point seem clearer. I am going to translate this without the triple negatives and redundancies:


It's possible I could be beat here, but not highly likely. I would like to extract value somewhere when I have a chance.


If you are not beat, isn't the turn the time to raise it? You are "not highly likely" to be 3-bet, since that is where the 3-bet is coming from on the turn, right? If he's aggro enough that the turn 3-bet doesn't mean he has you beat, then you like calling it even more.


I would not be surprised at all if he couldn't fold a T which he decided to bet for value on the river.

So do you think that he would fold the T on the turn when you raise? So basically, you are slowplaying the turn.

Thought provoking, but I don't see that great value.