Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

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well hello calling station

I probably raise that flop and then get out if the turn doesn't help me

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I agree this line seems best. When BB calls the raise out of postion I think you must put him on a strong hand. Unless your image says otherwise, there is no reason for the BB to call OOP. Raise 50 then shut down if he calls.

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

Well I'm a total donkey, so treat this more like a question than an opinion [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Wouldn't his bets make sense if he was holding 67(s) or pocket 8's?

Flop he picks up a straight draw or sees just one overcard to his pair so he bets out a bit testingly.

Turn he makes his straight or set but also sees the draw for a bigger straight and/or flush so he bets out for value and to not give pot-odds for any flush/straight-draws.

Ts on river makes both a flush and a bigger straight possible, so he makes a blocking bet.

Or..?

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

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Does anyone have any experience with these bet sizes in this situation? What do you think they mean? He bets tiny on the flop, reasonable on the turn, and then small again on the river? Weird. And I viewed a flop raise as a bluff essentially, so I wasn't too happy about it, but I didn't want to fold, but I don't really like my call...I suck at poker.

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i dont think flop raise is a bluff at all, but that depends on whether you are gonna be putting more money in the pot.

that said, i really dont like river call. turn i think is either some sort of decent pair with something extra, or [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or 67 and you're losing to almost all of that by the river.

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

I take it to mean A9
Edit: His thoughts being, TPTK bet and see what happens figuring overpair will raise. He becomes more confident when another under flops, and river he wants a showdown.

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

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I'm quite interested in hearing more about if you raise the flop and he calls and you check the turn behind and he bets (either small or big) on the river do you ever call?

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i [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] reads, I will fold 4/5 times and always against tightish players but sometimes i will consider calling if he is a player i have seen bluffing before. but standard play is definitely fold.

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Also, as played on the flop, does anyone do anything differently on the turn or river?

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fold somewhere. usually the turn

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

My read is that BB has a premium hand. He's calling your raise, and then immediately baiting the PFR with a small flop bet. I'd say TT+ are really very likely from villian.

With that being said, I get the impression that his flop bet was a teaser please-raise-me-so-I-can-shove-in-a-truckload type of bet, and when you called, I think he is squarely putting you on unpaired overs.

A straight draw seems unbelievably unlikely to me, as the only one getting there on the turn is 67, which I wouldn't say would be likely to call that PFR out of position.

With that being said, I think with your line you're going to see villian turn up a big(ger) pair most of the time.

Seeing all the action after the flop, I'd get into my way back machine and raise the flop as many have suggested and see if you can pick off someone trying to snap off the PFR on a ragged board, and then eject like crazy unless you hit a miracle turn card (a 7 or even a 9 wouldn't _thrill_ me, but they'd probably get me to showdown, picking up the diamond draw or the sweet 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] would keep me in as well).

I'd need something that could beat say JJ, imho.

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

It's a funny old line, no doubt. I'm not sure he actually has a real strategy - I think he's blundering about a bit. My guess is he also had a weakish 9, and in fact I'm going to stick my neck out and say 98. So he thinks:

Flop - cool, top pair. Weak kicker though. Maybe I'll bet a little under half the pot - might take it down here or milk a bit more out of a worse hand.

Turn - all right! top two. I'm going to bet the pot, or thereabouts - I really hope he calls.

River - woah - 89T on the board and a three flush. This guy stuck around - maybe he had some kind of draw. I can't check but I can't bear the thought of making a big bet which gets raised and having to lay it down. Guess I'll make a blocking bet, which will get some more value out because I'm probably ahead ... aren't I?.

(Not saying I agree with the above logic btw [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

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These bet sizes often mean that, on the flop you didn't raise so you must have high cards that haven't paired yet peeling one off. On the low turn, he bets bigger to make you fold said big cards but you don't do it. On the river, he wants to showdown cheapish because he has no freaking idea what you have but has something with showdown value himself. You are rarely ahead on the end but every once in a while they'll show you a small pocket pair.

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ghazban reads hands well...

i'd probably raise the river as a value bluff

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

looks like a small pocket pair or an OESD on the flop. I think this is the nl equivalent of when calling just can't be right. I raise the flop but the turn is gonna suck if he smooth calls me.

Re: Totally lost TPWK - weird hand
 

Hate to dredge up this old thread, but what were the results? I want to know what he took that line with. You should tell me his SN, too [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]