Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

Everyone is talking about betting flush draws on the flop to create a pot and odds. You can also take it down UI sometimes. However, I only see all this working if you also lead the flop with many other hands. If your opponents know you will only lead into a large field with a flush draw, then they will either 1) Kill your action by raising or 2) Call you down and fold when the flush hits. To me, in order to make these bets pay off, you have to be willing to lead with other hands in blind position such as TP, top two, or a straight draw. It seems like many players replying in this post only lead out of blinds with a flush draw.

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

Few small stakes players are so observant. Also, we're betting our monsters and strong hands as well, and sometimes our top pair hands depending on the board and what type of players are where.

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

Why would you assume I (or other posters in this thread) wouldn't bet top pair, middle pair, 2-pair, a set, a straight, OESD's and other hands from the blinds?

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

From what I read, everytime TP, top two, or a set is flopped, it always goes check/raise. Unless if the board is coordinated, in which case a few people decide to lead with those hands. A quick example I can think of to illustrate this...

Let's say we're dealt Q4o in BB. Four limpers, SB completes, we check. Flop is Q 9h 5h. I don't think anyone would lead here. Most would go for a check/raise against a position bet or simply check/fold to an early bet. Now let's say our holecards have changed to Q9. I still don't see anyone leading this, everyone is going for the check/raise to try and knock out some players. Again, we change our holecards to 55. Still don't see anyone leading. With this hand, I can foresee a check/call on the flop and a check/raise on the turn. Some might even take this line with Q9.

Finally, let's say our holecards have changed to K8h. Now everyone is leading. See my point?

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

I'd lead with Q4o there. I think you're mistaking this with hands where there is a PFR, and you can count on someone to bet. When you can't count on anyone to bet, you bet.

With the Q9 and 55 example, you must be reading a different forum, because we are constantly being betting our strong hands, or telling people to bet them when they check these flops.

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

Alright, then I guess I'm talking about those players who don't lead.

FWIW, I would not lead out with 55 on that flop. It would blow up the pot so any flush and straight draw will draw against you. With a check/raise on the flop (or the turn), you will definetely knock people out. I think very strong hands like Q9 or 55 require pot manipulation to prevent drawouts.

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, then I guess I'm talking about those players who don't lead.

FWIW, I would not lead out with 55 on that flop. It would blow up the pot so any flush and straight draw will draw against you. With a check/raise on the flop (or the turn), you will definetely knock people out. I think very strong hands like Q9 or 55 require pot manipulation to prevent drawouts.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of this last post is just dead wrong.

Not saying you aren't smart...just saying your poker thinking kinda sucks.

But don't worry. Stick around and you'll get better.

Will

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
From what I read, everytime TP, top two, or a set is flopped, it always goes check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, but people who always check/raise their flop monsters like top2 oder set play poor poker.

to the question: first hand: the bet with a flushdraw is profitable if at least two and better three or more peolpe put chips into the pot. Hero didn't have the nut flushdraw so I put him on 8 outs, that means, that at least three people should put money on the flop to make Heros bet a value bet. Due to the fact that hero has no additional outs in this large field I prefer check here to wait for the action and to make a value raise if someone bets behind him. against this large field its unlikely that hero gets the pot without SD. so he should prepare to check/call turn unless the turn is HU.

In the second hand hero has additional straight outs to his flushdraw, in total maybe 10 outs. In this spot I prefer a lead because hero can cap the flop vs only two opponents for value with a potequity of around 38%

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alright, then I guess I'm talking about those players who don't lead.

FWIW, I would not lead out with 55 on that flop. It would blow up the pot so any flush and straight draw will draw against you. With a check/raise on the flop (or the turn), you will definetely knock people out. I think very strong hands like Q9 or 55 require pot manipulation to prevent drawouts.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of this last post is just dead wrong.

Not saying you aren't smart...just saying your poker thinking kinda sucks.

But don't worry. Stick around and you'll get better.

Will

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Betting flush draws into a field OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, then I guess I'm talking about those players who don't lead.

FWIW, I would not lead out with 55 on that flop. It would blow up the pot so any flush and straight draw will draw against you. With a check/raise on the flop (or the turn), you will definetely knock people out. I think very strong hands like Q9 or 55 require pot manipulation to prevent drawouts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I lead with a lot of strong hands out of the blind, including top 2, a set or even a flopped straight/flush.

Especially playing $5/$10, if a pot is not raised pre-flop, then you usually have loose-passives in the hand who will allow the flop to be checked through.