Re: Atlantic Trout - TPcrapK
 

Just call the river in hand 1. THere's a good chance your hand is good here, since he could have been semibluffing or trying to fold a Q with a smaller pair hand.

Hand 2, I would raise preflop. How much were you planning to call on the river if he bet? If you aren't calling a PSB, then I rather just raise the turn.

Re: Atlantic Trout - TPcrapK
 

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Hand 2, I would raise preflop. How much were you planning to call on the river if he bet? If you aren't calling a PSB, then I rather just raise the turn.

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What's a PSB? I was calling any amount.

Re: Atlantic Trout - TPcrapK
 

My thoughts (realjobu) was that Durron had a middle pair and was then trying to run me over as I am a relative unknown. As I play at lower levels ($10SNGs) it appears that with better players an all in at the turn or river appears to have an 90% probability it is made or nuts hand. Anyone have a view ?

Re: Atlantic Trout - TPcrapK
 

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My thoughts (realjobu) was that Durron had a middle pair and was then trying to run me over as I am a relative unknown.

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I thought you might think this. Thus my line [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Atlantic Trout - TPcrapK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts (realjobu) was that Durron had a middle pair and was then trying to run me over as I am a relative unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you might think this. Thus my line [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to elaborate a little more. I thought you might think that, so I thought there was a chance you would pay me off with a worse hand. I was 99% sure you did not have a better hand... I put you on exactly what you had, a reverse dominated queen (I thought you might be worse then a queen with the turn raise, but when you bet 150 I was sure you had a "better" queen than me). So really I'm gambling on the times you decide to try to snap me off with one pair. Let's say I had made a nice value check-raise. Say to 450. Let's say you look me up for such a value checkraise 70% of the time. So 70% of the time I make an additional 300, for a profit of 210 chips. Now let's say you call the allin for 1000 more chips 30% of the time. Thus I make a net of 300 chips.

That's the advantage of overbetting for value... the times you do get called by worse hands, you make more chips in the long run, even if you don't get called as often. This is especially important in MTTs where you have to accumulate chips - in a 2+2 tournament especially it will be hard to pick up chips. That's why I usually play a lot sillier in a 2+2 tournament, because it's important to help me get more action. See Megabet's call of my resteal when I had AhKh. Of course, as was seen in NA vs. Euro, I'm not very good at it yet, but I'm working on it. And of course it backfires, when I raise with TT 5 handed and hyde comes over the top and because of my image I can't give him credit for JJ+/AK. Though the correct way to play that hand probably would have been to call preflop and play it with position postflop. But anyway, I hope I made some sense here.

Also note that once people realize your are overbetting for value in this way, your overbets will stop getting action. So then you have to start mixing in bluff overbets. See posts about Spirit Rock/Mahatma on the MHNL forum for details (this is why I lurk everywhere) [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Re: Atlantic Trout - TPcrapK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts (realjobu) was that Durron had a middle pair and was then trying to run me over as I am a relative unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you might think this. Thus my line [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to elaborate a little more. I thought you might think that, so I thought there was a chance you would pay me off with a worse hand. I was 99% sure you did not have a better hand... I put you on exactly what you had, a reverse dominated queen (I thought you might be worse then a queen with the turn raise, but when you bet 150 I was sure you had a "better" queen than me). So really I'm gambling on the times you decide to try to snap me off with one pair. Let's say I had made a nice value check-raise. Say to 450. Let's say you look me up for such a value checkraise 70% of the time. So 70% of the time I make an additional 300, for a profit of 210 chips. Now let's say you call the allin for 1000 more chips 30% of the time. Thus I make a net of 300 chips.

That's the advantage of overbetting for value... the times you do get called by worse hands, you make more chips in the long run, even if you don't get called as often. This is especially important in MTTs where you have to accumulate chips - in a 2+2 tournament especially it will be hard to pick up chips. That's why I usually play a lot sillier in a 2+2 tournament, because it's important to help me get more action. See Megabet's call of my resteal when I had AhKh. Of course, as was seen in NA vs. Euro, I'm not very good at it yet, but I'm working on it. And of course it backfires, when I raise with TT 5 handed and hyde comes over the top and because of my image I can't give him credit for JJ+/AK. Though the correct way to play that hand probably would have been to call preflop and play it with position postflop. But anyway, I hope I made some sense here.

Also note that once people realize your are overbetting for value in this way, your overbets will stop getting action. So then you have to start mixing in bluff overbets. See posts about Spirit Rock/Mahatma on the MHNL forum for details (this is why I lurk everywhere) [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

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Got it. Thanks for posting the hand and the insight. More education of a fish !