Re: Requested Post - 88
 

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Entity, are you insinuating that the preflop play would be better with a hand like 44 (though maybe still not optimal)?

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i think he's saying 88 has showdown value and is not just a speculative hand as OP seems to have considered it. thus it is not improved by the bloated pot as it is susceptible to overs, etc. and you do not want to give opponents proper odds to draw to their hands. at least thats how i took it. and i agree.

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I think that's why El Ishmael is saying perhaps the play is better with 44 than it is with 88..even though it still might not be right.

Also, I do feel that the raw showdown value of 88 in a 7 way pot is not that high...perhaps I'm wrong in this thinking.

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to bloat the pot to make it proper to draw to a set? slightly askew of proper strategy, but i see what he was asking now. and also, as far as being in a 7 way pot, that is why i would have raised preflop, ESPECIALLY with tight or predictable players behind me to act...to limit the field and improve your chances. i show signficant profit playing 88 to showdown without catching a set.

Re: Requested Post - 88
 

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Entity, are you insinuating that the preflop play would be better with a hand like 44 (though maybe still not optimal)?

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Ok let's chat about the preflop play. Why do we make a raise with a small pair with many limpers? Well two reasons, often we are getting a fair price to do so, though not a large advantage. Often it is just revenue nuetral, some times a bit of a dog, but what it does is bloat the pot a bit such that if you hit your set others will call even though they do not have the odds to do so, because you have a set. According to the theory of poker, that is a "good thing"(tm).

So what if I rebloat the darn thing here? Well now you have become a victim of your own design, the pot is so large on the flop that you have to see another card on the turn, and sometimes on the river drawing to a razor thin edge.

So do we need to do this, sometimes, but here it is likely that several of the players will call anyway if you flop a set. Well if that is the case you actually gain more by not raising because it increases the size of their postflop mistake. It all depends on the players.

Of special note however, raising is fun and getting extra bets in on revenue neutral holdings can add a bit of flair to your game. That's not a bad thing, however this situation is a pot size manipulation question and not so much a "how to add flair" question.

Re: Requested Post - 88
 

Does anyone consider 55 a possibility? I think thats the one hand you do beat at the river.