Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

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even if you knew for sure you had the only pair preflop, you should still fold it even though technically you would be folding the best hand. make sense?

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imho, it only makes sense if you hate money.

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

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im not just playing 55 for set value. its very possible that i have the only pair preflop and will play it postflop on boards like this. granted, i should have picked a better spot and just folded the flop here, but there are many times when my 55s hold up to be the best hand.

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When you play it multiway you are looking to flop a set; if you aren't priced in to flop a set you want the pot HU because your hand won't win UI often enough in a multiway pot.

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

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I'm not a big fan of calling a raise with this hand, maybe with another limper but its just not that great, you gotta make up a lot of ground when you make a set.

Also some chance you are 3bet from the blinds and the LAG caps.

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seriously. this is as ideal a flop as you can get with 55, and you're still in a crappy situation (when you don't hit your set). are there any threads explaining how this is a standard call preflop?

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

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seriously. this is as ideal a flop as you can get with 55, and you're still in a crappy situation (when you don't hit your set). are there any threads explaining how this is a standard call preflop?

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You are in a crappy situation because you are facing SB's bet and the lag's raise. If you are only facing the lag's continuation bet then you are not in a crappy situation at all. You are in the perfect spot to isolate him and usually get HU against a worse hand in a large pot.

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

i just filtered 22-77 seeing the flop four way to five way and i am making 0.06BB/hand over 300 instances. obv sample size...but i flopped sets less than 1 in 8 in this sample too.

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

he is in bad position to do it because the maniac acts before him. he flops a set. maniac bets out. how does he extract tons of bets? its hard to do. lets say he calls the maniac the whole way and one of the guys overcalls. 2 small bets on the flop. 2 big bets on the turn. 2 big bets on the river. thats 5. and that is a pretty generous estimation. the problem is he has to extract 4-5 BB from his opponents. the bets that he puts in don't count. so he has to find someway to either get multiple people putting in big bets on every street or one person going off for multiple big bets on a street and what have you. and this is all assuming that preflop doesn't get raised behind him and that every time he hits a set its good, which is also not true. i dunno maybe im giving really bad advice that is just what i think about it.

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

imo, calling>3betting>folding. but, after retrospect, im thinking 3betting might actually be better than calling. this is especially true if UTG has any chance of folding.

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

You're assuming no one else will have anything though. When you flop a set and a couple others flop pairs/draws, which is usually what will happen, you will end up winning way more than 5 BB. You can raise the flop and they will still call or maybe 3-bet. Or maybe they will donk into the lag and you can 3-bet him when he raises. Or even if no one has anything the lag will often go off for lots of bets on the flop/turn with weak pairs/draws. It seems like you're focusing too much on worst case scenarios. 10/20 is a damn aggro game. Sets make lots.

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

if it was limped to him it is an easy call because he has to make up half as many bets postflop. also, to me, 77 is in a different class of hands than 55. it is easier to have an overpair to anothers pair, to not get counterfieted, a
'good' flop doesn't necessarily have to give people straight draws, that sort of stuff.

Re: real men dont play hit or miss...
 

rory youre right that because its a raised pot it decreases my implied odds, but thats only under the assumption that you play this hand for set value. i am playing the hand for purposes other than set value and will take it to showdown unimproved often enough that my preflop call should show positive equity. if you are going to play hit or miss with the pair then yes you are right, you should probably fold.