Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Still a very nice appraisal of the situation, but it wasn't the laydown that one would think it would be if given out of context and certainly one that an educated player would be able to figure out if they took their time.


[/ QUOTE ]

You really think most educated players are checking the turn so they can figure out the situation?

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Whenever a 150 year old guy bets 10K into a 6K pot with a board of A A 4 Q after a 3 bet pre flop and DOESN'T DIE IN THE PROCESS, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was A 4 4 Q .......

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
This should probably be a WPT forum discussion, but . . .

I can't believe that guy didn't beat the **** out of Helmuth after his flopped Broadway got outdrawn and Helmuth starts talking about it not being a bad beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? the money went in preflop, JTs vs. 99. flopped broadway, turn 9, river Q. some guy not in the hand starts talking about it being a bad beat, hellmuth correctly points out that it is not a bad beat because they were basically even money when the money went in, and then the dude who lost w/ JTs starts arguing with phil and calling it a bad beat. phil was right.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

Yeah Phil was right but when Magriel's 77 knocked his AQ out he wasn't about to point out that Magriel went in with the best hand.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still a very nice appraisal of the situation, but it wasn't the laydown that one would think it would be if given out of context and certainly one that an educated player would be able to figure out if they took their time.


[/ QUOTE ]

You really think most educated players are checking the turn so they can figure out the situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i would guess that most good players bet out the turn and fold to the raise. If the Q doesn't come, I don't think that there is any way Phil doesn't lose a bundle of chips. The Q made his hand shrink up quite a bit.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

How about the turn bet by the Italian guy? I thought that was horrible. Maybe your opponent puts you on a bluff and calls but you've gotta be thinking you can suck out more chips with a reasonable bet.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
How about the turn bet by the Italian guy? I thought that was horrible. Maybe your opponent puts you on a bluff and calls but you've gotta be thinking you can suck out more chips with a reasonable bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

i do that sometimes if I want it to look like a steal after checking behind on the flop. Of course, I usually bet the flop when I flop a monster, too. It wasn't that much of an overbet. It was 10k into about a 6.5k pot.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah Phil was right but when Magriel's 77 knocked his AQ out he wasn't about to point out that Magriel went in with the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Magriel's call here was pretty awful actually. The only thing is I couldn't quite tell what the stack sizes were, and how much he already has committed. There's no way I feel confident there calling with 7s against a push from a good player. You're basically hoping for a coinflip, seemed pretty bad all around to me.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

Try as we might, it is impossible to ignore the fact that all of us KNEW the old dude had aces. Decisions inevitably look oh-so-clear when you can see other guy's cards.

Understanding that, there were many signs that pointed to a monster from the old man. Would I have noticed these in the heat of battle (when I didn't know the other guy's cards)? Unknown and unknowable. But, man, they seemed clear while sitting on my couch:

1. The mini-reraise. Usually a sign of a monster, especially when up against a world class player and have many players still to act behind. If you have a hand like TT, the last thing you want to do is play post flop and provide opportunities for the better player to outplay you. The miniraise says "I'm not afraid of playing every street, and I don't care if others join the pot."

2. The coffeehousing. The old man was way too comfortable, looking like he didn't have a care in the world. Again, he's on the ESPN TV table, playing for $7M, heads up against a great tourney player, and he's making jokes! Jeez old man, shut up already!

3. The shrug. When Phil checks to him, he (effectively) says, "OK, I guess I'll bet." Perhaps the most obvious weak-when-strong tell of the day.

4. The massive overbet. When he finally decides to bet, he bets way too much (2x pot). No wonder phil thought he had Queens full.

Laying down AK on a A44Q board is a great laydown. But if there was ever a situation that made it easy...this was it.

Re: Hellmuth\'s AK hand
 

The dark-check strategy seems like a really strong one for A) a player that is capable of making great reads B) When everyone has deep stacks C) Most your opponents are bad and/or highly inferior players.