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-   -   $11 JJ laydown... good bad? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=360422)

pooh74 10-19-2005 01:38 PM

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 
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Preflop: I raise here because I know I'm a favorite to flop at least an overpair, but limping and raising are so close in value that limping is also a fine play.

Flop: You're playing it straight up and I think that's the best way to do it at the 11's about 98.5% of the time, including here.

Turn: Was the minbet a misclick? It's not big enough to be a blocker and also not big enough for a value bet. After the raise, I'm not folding with ten clean outs plus the flush redraw, especially at the tens where there's even a chance I'm ahead of top pair and two pair.

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This sounds more like the response I anticipated.

I folded to the turn raise.

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you mean the turn raise where you are still ahead half of the time and have great odds to fill up still? that one?

Of course theyll raise their K2 when you rep 77...

Edit: not saying you arent behind here a lot of the time, but his raise was very kind actually.

stupidsucker 10-19-2005 01:56 PM

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 
So to sum this up...

Preflop wasnt bad, but a raise is better.

Flop bet was good.

Turn my min bet was terrible. I think it came because the timer was tickign away and I was torn, so I clicked the min bet to buy me time and get more info. This is just a good example of how running badly and getting on tilt can affect your game just through indecison.

I folded without giving pot odds a thought whatsoever. My only thoughts were... "I think I am beat, and I still have chips to get ITM. I am only a double up behind." Is there ever a time my line of thought is good?

I should have either pushed the turn or check/called.
My other option is bet the turn. If so how much?

Thanks VERY much to the people that are replying.
I may have to dig up lots of my 99-JJ hands and see what everyone thinks. I think I may find a lot of my roi leak is within there.

john smith 10-19-2005 03:07 PM

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 
I like check/calling the turn. If the board doesn't pair on the river and there's heavy action behind you, you can fold and still play with your remaining ~400 chips. Pushing probably wouldn't be too bad either.

Slim Pickens 10-19-2005 06:07 PM

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 
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I folded without giving pot odds a thought whatsoever. My only thoughts were... "I think I am beat, and I still have chips to get ITM. I am only a double up behind." Is there ever a time my line of thought is good?

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Everyone knows the laws of probability apply to poker in general. The biggest difference between the fish and the sharks is that the fish don't believe those laws apply specifically to them. You should never fail to consider pot odds. While there are times pot odds considerations can be trumped by others (implied odds, for example, or $EV vs. cEV), simply understanding and applying pot odds properly makes you better than about 75% of the players at the 11's. Understanding the difference between $EV and cEV gets you up to about 90%. You're worried about the last 10% without assuring you keep the first 90% covered.


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