Re: Laydown that I regret
 

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Why are you thinking bet the turn?

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For value. I don't necessarily think villian has a pair/trips here most of the time, and even if he does we have lots of outs.

Re: Laydown that I regret
 

In a tourney you can't make these types of bets as often as you would in a side game since the chips you lose when you spew are more valuable then the chips you gain when he makes poor calls. We are raising the flop to get a free card here so we need to take it when he offers it to us.

CSC - As others have stated I don't like a river raise here. I would just call in a sidegame as well. If he was betting the flop with a draw it didn't get there and we get no value from the raise. If he was betting the flop with an 8, he outdrew us on the turn and we will get 3-bet.

Brad

Re: Laydown that I regret
 

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My read on Seat 2 is that he is a fish. He bets when he has stuff, he calls when he shouldn't, he plays way too many hands, and he's not that hard to read. His read on me should be that I am a tight aggressive player. He has seen me play few hands, and play those hands aggressively or get out quick...........................

I also thought, "he's got to know exactly what I have, he can't be thinking that I'd fold an ace here."

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Your biggest mistake was in your head.

You figured the fish could have a read on you, put you on a hand and would think about what you would do. Even though he played like he didn't think at all.

People who play bad usually don't think about much, other than how good their hand looks. It looked real good to him on the river.

Re: Laydown that I regret
 

wow...

Re: Laydown that I regret
 

With my style, I wind up making a lot of river value calls and very few river raises, even with near nut hands, when I think there is a 'bluff or monster' situation involved. Sometimes, I have to double and triple check myself and the hand history to make sure I'm not developing a weak/tight streak on the river.

This would not be one of those times, because I wouldn't have thought twice about just calling (although I might have raised/paid off if the turn was a 2 or even a 4.)

I think the fold on the end is fine given your read, but hey, we all sometimes screw up reads.

Re: Laydown that I regret
 

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I agree with a lot of what was said in this thread. The river is a should call, not a should raise. For the 1st hour after that hand I was chastising myself for that raise. However, at that point I was completely confident that the fold was the correct play (esp. given tourney considerations). Then about 5 hours later in the tourney at another table, I saw this same player running all the usual donk moves again and again, but then he shows off an extended bluff with 44 on a AKT8ddd board. Another player saw that and said, "Man, I love playing with that guy, absolutely fearless." At that point I was no longer happy with my read or my fold.

Anyway, thanks for the criticism.

Chief: while there are many players in MTT who are aware of what Limit is, and even play from time to time, the thread would have gone un-responded to, or responded to with a NL mentality.

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push preflop....oh wait.

uhhhh...just call the river.