Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

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your example is totally different then the hand discussed in the diablo thread.

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no relation intended between the threads.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

indeed. if opponent is a routine stacker-offer with shite, then there is a good argument to some-of-the-time flat call and hope one of the 24 or 27 cards that might kill your action don't come off. we all do it, but it's like riding a moped/se with a fat chick/etc.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

So how do you play this when you both have 10k+ (other than reraise pre?)

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

I dont hate this play, but I would like it better if the pre-flop raiser was the button...then you smooth call the SB hoping the button repops with AK or something like that.

I have a hard time thinking that you will trap many hands here given that the button did not raise (even tho you did here)

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

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i don't play at all online so i don't know if this is as necessary there, but i know that when you play high limit live its crucial because you play with the same people so often, and they are paying attention.

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live the penalty for giving free cards is lower because you can much more easily read your way out of trouble. so you "pay" less for your trickiness and hence can enjoy being tricky more often. live rules, except when you are trying to make money.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

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Does the prf really have to push or fold here given his 12 outs?

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he has 15. definitely a push for him. if he just calls and hits, he may not get action on the turn. if he just calls and misses, he will call the all in if he checks and thus should bet, putting money in as much less a favorite. which reason you think is more important nicely dovetails back to my original point. i will now drink my coffee with my pinkie extended while someone barks about what if the turn is checked through, which is uncommon enough in this game that planning on it does not make sense to me with remaining stacks that small.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

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So how do you play this when you both have 10k+ (other than reraise pre?)

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why would you reraise pf?

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

I have a couple more questions:
If pfr makes a mistake and just calls and
1) turn comes non heart A, K, or 8 and pfr pushes does set always fold, sometimes fold, never fold?
2) turn pairs board and pfr checks does set(now boat) also check(to give a chance for pfr to make a flush) giving pfr a free draw to 2 outs to str8 flush?

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

I don't know, from my experience in live games with big stacks the first raise doesn't mean much, really just two cards the person would like to play. A reraise is a little better, I have a hand better than average, and a 3bet is I have a very good hand. So I feel like you have to raise with 10k+ stacks to sort of help get a bearing on what your opponent has...no?

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

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I don't know, from my experience in live games with big stacks the first raise doesn't mean much, really just two cards the person would like to play. A reraise is a little better, I have a hand better than average, and a 3bet is I have a very good hand. So I feel like you have to raise with 10k+ stacks to sort of help get a bearing on what your opponent has...no?

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its much more likely that your opponent gets a bearing on you, than the other way around.

unless you are also 3betting 22/67s/AQs and such, you will get pegged when playing deep and predictable.