Re: QQ hand
 

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I'd love to hear some reasons behind leading out on the flop with 4 callers. I'm with the camp that I think it's very possible that someone has at least a King. I'd check the flop and check the turn and be willing to call a marginal bet from a late position (possible) steal attempt.

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i think the check on the flop in fine as long as you check the turn and river unless you improve.
what i didnt like was the check on the flop and the bet on the turn.
also seen as as you said with 4 other players its very unlikely that some one dosent have a K,so as a last stab at the pot i would also be think a bet of around 3K on the flop in fine.your getting nearly 2.5:1 odds on the bet ,if you get called you can see the turn , if you get rerasied your done .

Re: QQ hand
 

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i think the check on the flop in fine as long as you check the turn and river unless you improve.
what i didnt like was the check on the flop and the bet on the turn.
also seen as as you said with 4 other players its very unlikely that some one dosent have a K,so as a last stab at the pot i would also be think a bet of around 3K on the flop in fine.your getting nearly 2.5:1 odds on the bet ,if you get called you can see the turn , if you get rerasied your done .

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I did improve. I didn't make a set, but it was checked around and the turn was a brick, so the probability I was ahead went way up.

I am not crazy about betting 3K into a 5-way 8K pot when I am not sure I am ahead, with the intention to fold to a raise. Maybe it's a good play, but it is not my style.

Re: QQ hand
 

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i think the check on the flop in fine as long as you check the turn and river unless you improve.
what i didnt like was the check on the flop and the bet on the turn.
also seen as as you said with 4 other players its very unlikely that some one dosent have a K,so as a last stab at the pot i would also be think a bet of around 3K on the flop in fine.your getting nearly 2.5:1 odds on the bet ,if you get called you can see the turn , if you get rerasied your done .

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I did improve. I didn't make a set, but it was checked around and the turn was a brick, so the probability I was ahead went way up.

I am not crazy about betting 3K into a 5-way 8K pot when I am not sure I am ahead, with the intention to fold to a raise. Maybe it's a good play, but it is not my style.

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as it turns out 5 wasnt a brick,it made a set for some one.with 4 other ppl in the pot almost any card could be a danger card for you.
by imroving i meant make your set and even if you did i would still be cautious how i would play it.
as for the 3k bet ,i wouldnt make it my self in this situation but i wouldnt fault some one for doing it either.

Re: QQ hand
 

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Paradise $10 rebuy, about 40% of field left, blinds 300/600/25. I am a little above average with T13K. I raise to 1800 in 2nd position with QQ and get 4 callers.

Flop is KT7,r. I am 2nd to act and check. It is checked around.

Turn is a 5. I bet 5000. 4th position raises 6000 allin, having me slightly covered. It is folded back to me.

Should I call? Should I have checked the flop? Should I have bet the turn?

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I bet the flop. If you are checking the flop, I think checking the turn and river unless you improve is the best play.

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Against one opponent I see leading out on the flop. Against three this is a clear check.

Re: QQ hand
 

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as it turns out 5 wasnt a brick,it made a set for some one.with 4 other ppl in the pot almost any card could be a danger card for you.
by imroving i meant make your set and even if you did i would still be cautious how i would play it.

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Of course the 5 made someone a set. However, if I was ahead on the flop, it was unlikely the 5 would change things.

When it got checked around and a brick hit, it seems reasonable for me to bet essentialy even money that I am ahead. As Gavin suggested, it might also be reasonable to bet even money in the flop that no one had a king or set.

Are you saying I should be careful if I make the 2nd highest set? Sure a Q could make a straight for someone. But I would only be behind AJ, J9, and KK. With 11K left and 8K in the pot, I don't see how you can play this hand carefully.

Re: QQ hand
 

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as it turns out 5 wasnt a brick,it made a set for some one.with 4 other ppl in the pot almost any card could be a danger card for you.
by imroving i meant make your set and even if you did i would still be cautious how i would play it.

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Of course the 5 made someone a set. However, if I was ahead on the flop, it was unlikely the 5 would change things.

When it got checked around and a brick hit, it seems reasonable for me to bet essentialy even money that I am ahead. As Gavin suggested, it might also be reasonable to bet even money in the flop that no one had a king or set.

Are you saying I should be careful if I make the 2nd highest set? Sure a Q could make a straight for someone. But I would only be behind AJ, J9, and KK. With 11K left and 8K in the pot, I don't see how you can play this hand carefully.

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with your stack being what it is your right a set of Qs is a push .however when you say if you were ahead on the flop then its unlikely that a 5 would change things.
how can you be sure that its unlikely the 5 would change things?
5 way pot,what kind of ranges are you putting the other 4 on that a 5 is unlikely to change things?
what im trying to say is with that many people in the pot IMO any card at all can change things from turn to river,do you not agree?

Re: QQ hand
 

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with your stack being what it is your right a set of Qs is a push .however when you say if you were ahead on the flop then its unlikely that a 5 would change things.
how can you be sure that its unlikely the 5 would change things?
5 way pot,what kind of ranges are you putting the other 4 on that a 5 is unlikely to change things?
what im trying to say is with that many people in the pot IMO any card at all can change things from turn to river,do you not agree?

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Yeh, the 5 could change things and it did. However, it was unlikely that the 5 changed things. Of course it is a dangerous situation in a 5-way raised pot. However, the pot is awfully big and I want it.

I bet that I was ahead and I was wrong. Some of this discussion is making me think I played the hand right. You have to go by probabilities and odds and I think they were in favor of putting my money in on the turn.

Re: QQ hand
 

Yeh, the 5 could change things and it did. However, it was unlikely that the 5 changed things. Of course it is a dangerous situation in a 5-way raised pot. However, the pot is awfully big and I want it.

I bet that I was ahead and I was wrong. Some of this discussion is making me think I played the hand right. You have to go by probabilities and odds and I think they were in favor of putting my money in on the turn.

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im very interested to know based on probability how you figured that you were ahead on the turn?
as far as i know ,probability in this case works like this:
you put your opponent/s on a range of hands, calculate your hands against them ,and according to the odds your getting you decide if its +EV or not to make the play.
now when you put your opponents on a range, in this case 4 of them, do you not think 4 cards on the bored is much more likely to complete that hand range than 3?what i am saying is that the fact that the turn was a 5 is irrelevant.
For example if you were in the same situation with 7 other ppl, would you have bet the turn if a 2 or a 3 fell on the turn?
my point is the bet on the turn is wrong IMO because it did not make your hand stronger than what you had on the flop.

Re: QQ hand
 

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im very interested to know based on probability how you figured that you were ahead on the turn?
as far as i know ,probability in this case works like this:
you put your opponent/s on a range of hands, calculate your hands against them ,and according to the odds your getting you decide if its +EV or not to make the play.
now when you put your opponents on a range, in this case 4 of them, do you not think 4 cards on the bored is much more likely to complete that hand range than 3?what i am saying is that the fact that the turn was a 5 is irrelevant.
For example if you were in the same situation with 7 other ppl, would you have bet the turn if a 2 or a 3 fell on the turn?
my point is the bet on the turn is wrong IMO because it did not make your hand stronger than what you had on the flop.

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I think I am ahead because no one bet the flop. Unless someone was slow plyaing a set or the 5 made a set for someone, I should be ahead.

Re: QQ hand
 

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Paradise $10 rebuy, about 40% of field left, blinds 300/600/25. I am a little above average with T13K. I raise to 1800 in 2nd position with QQ and get 4 callers.

Flop is KT7,r. I am 2nd to act and check. It is checked around.

Turn is a 5. I bet 5000. 4th position raises 6000 allin, having me slightly covered. It is folded back to me.

Should I call? Should I have checked the flop? Should I have bet the turn?

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I bet the flop. If you are checking the flop, I think checking the turn and river unless you improve is the best play.

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Against one opponent I see leading out on the flop. Against three this is a clear check.

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Good reasoning... no it's not. Just b/c there is a K on the flop doesn't make it a clear check.