Re: Yes, I limped UTG with 10 BBs
 

I push this

Re: Yes, I limped UTG with 10 BBs
 

Looks reasonable to me. If you only had like 6 or 7 bb I'd think otherwise, but here, it looks fine.

I'd be inclined to call most single pushes, but fold if there's a push and a call behind.

Re: Yes, I limped UTG with 10 BBs
 

Uhh maybe I'm retarded and sloppy but if I have 10bb and 88 and am first person not to fold I'm all in every time, including UTG 9-handed. Limping and folding to a raise seems like a terrible plan because people will push hands like ATo, QJ and worse and lower pairs when you limp. I guess if you are thinking really big picture and you are in a tournament where Shania counts for something then maybe you can limp with a bunch of hands here and make it work.... But this is a stars 22 which makes this impossible.

Oh yeah, when you raise you can also win the blinds!

I hate pratt,
-Jason

The point
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uhh maybe I'm retarded and sloppy but if I have 10bb and 88 and am first person not to fold I'm all in every time, including UTG 9-handed. Limping and folding to a raise seems like a terrible plan because people will push hands like ATo, QJ and worse and lower pairs when you limp. I guess if you are thinking really big picture and you are in a tournament where Shania counts for something then maybe you can limp with a bunch of hands here and make it work.... But this is a stars 22 which makes this impossible.

Oh yeah, when you raise you can also win the blinds!

I hate pratt,
-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh shoes,

For a $150+12 you're absolutely right. I already said that I autojam in, say, a wcoop event or any event where I think my opponents are decent, aggressive players. But here in a stars 22 (which I've probably played a lot more of than you [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]) I think you see a lot fewer raises than you should. So the limp's not awful to consider 8 or 9 way.

The ENTIRE point of this post was that everyone's gut (including mine) gives the automatic response of "push this shiznit". But here, in this PARTICULAR spot, I felt uneasy-- like there might be a better play. This is how I improve my poker game, by rethinking "automatic" situations to see where I can improve, or if in this particular spot, a less-intuitive line would be more favorable. Un-automatic plays in the right spots can win tournaments. I'm sure you agree. (And FWIW I already posted that I agreed with the push here)

And dont even f***ing tell me that Pratt sucks. I'm one problem set from throwing up.

Everett

Re: The point
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is how I improve my poker game, by rethinking "automatic" situations to see where I can improve, or if in this particular spot, a less-intuitive line would be more favorable. Un-automatic plays in the right spots can win tournaments. I'm sure you agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent. Much as I appreciate developing a standard line with good reasoning behind it, we still need to mix up our play to avoid being too predictable, and test the boundaries to see if the standard line can be refined.

Re: The point
 

ok Evee, i acknowledge your point now, but i still jam it here every time

have i mentioned how much i enjoy not being in pratt?
KY

Re: The point
 

Yeah yeah yeah I just dont see how I can limp then fold. That was my buggaboo.

It's not like they are only pushing with 99+.... You gotta call any all in I'd think with the blinds as padding to the pot. Thats my problem...

-Jason

Re: The point
 

if it werent for pratt, i too would be playing cards right now instead of being in the damn hudson lab... fuss fuss fuss

Re: The point
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah yeah yeah I just dont see how I can limp then fold. That was my buggaboo.

It's not like they are only pushing with 99+.... You gotta call any all in I'd think with the blinds as padding to the pot. Thats my problem...

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's assume you are always going to call a raise. Does it therefore follow that you are ALWAYS best to just open-push?

It seems to me that there are certain hands, most notably low pairs, that will not call an all-in, but will give you action if you limp or raise a smaller amount. With a relatively short stack, you probably should welcome action in a favorable situation, rather than simply trying to maximize your chance of winning the blinds.

Look at it this way. There are times when check-calling is more profitable on the river than simply betting out. Isn't limping UTG, with the intention of calling a raise, a similar situation? Sometimes it could be right for the same reasons.

Re: Strass
 

what if you open raise and get reraised all in is this an auto call for you? Is there any equity in folding you still have 13k to work with?