Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

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Very interesting. I think I would also lean toward a raise here. I'm not at all convinced that we aren't ahead, given that it was the CO who bet after everyone checked. We're certainly well-positioned to face the field with 2. I'm not wild about a call here...what do we do UI on the turn if everyone calls? I think a raise will make this easier to play next street. But although it's marginal I think raising<calling<folding.

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If we don't improve, we just check/fold the turn.

By the way, I think you meant raising>calling>folding. At least, that seemed to be what your earlier comments were implying.

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

hand #2: does be bet draws? or bluff? i'm simply calling here. small pot. we could alredy be behind.

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

Might not, but I feel I play better when I take the aggressive approach. If I get called on the flop bet, I would probably check/fold UI on the turn. If I get raised on the flop bet, probably fold.

My thinking(probably wrong) [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Small pot with bottom pair top kicker, try to win it right there on the flop. If I get raised, let it go.

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

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The problem I always get stuck with here is our position. CO isn't folding, even if everyone else is. I get stuck with what to do on the turn when we miss, which we usually will. How do you play the turn if we fold out the other two and the turn is a blank like 2? Other ideas?


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This is interesting. I just advocated a raise because I think it will make playing the turn easier, and you're advocating against it because it will make it harder. Cool.

If we're HU on the turn, (and didn't get 3-bet on the flop) I will bet any card. I think it's actually harder if everyone comes along. I would probably still bet--just because there are a certain number of micro players that are seeing the turn no matter what but will fold to a turn bet. But it's certainly not what I'd prefer to have happen.

If you flat call the flop, and a blank falls, then what do you do? You probably won't have odds to call hoping to improve. Check/fold? You may have just folded the best hand. Are you advocating a flop fold?

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

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hand #2: does be bet draws? or bluff? i'm simply calling here. small pot. we could alredy be behind.

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Your respected player and play good stakes? and i agree with many of your posts so im querying this.

Whats your reason for calling? Do you think were ahead? if were behind what do we hope for?

I fold this happily.

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

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By the way, I think you meant raising>calling>folding. At least, that seemed to be what your earlier comments were implying.

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oops...you are right, fixed now.

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

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If you flat call the flop, and a blank falls, then what do you do? You probably won't have odds to call hoping to improve. Check/fold? You may have just folded the best hand. Are you advocating a flop fold?

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I'm calling because I think we're drawing, I think at least one other will call thus improving my odds, and I have good implied odds if I hit.

If I miss, it's instamuck for me on the turn.

(And I agree - it's cool to hear other thoughts. I know what I think, but I'm certainly not convinced it's the best plan.)

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

And now for the complete hands and how they played out:

Hand 1:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls.

River: (10.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG+2 has Ah Td (two pair, tens and sevens).
MP1 has 9h Jh (two pair, jacks and sevens).
CO has Th 4h (two pair, tens and sevens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 10.50 BB. </font>

Hand 2:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 4 BB

Now for my reasoning:

Last night was an extremely cold decked night for me (and it happens to have continued onto today, but whatever that happens). These were two cases where I decided to make an attempt to defend my blinds against players that I thought were weaker than me and that I could outplay after the flop. I wasn't all to excited about the first hand and facing a raise/re-raise with just bottom pair, top kicker I decided I was beat and probably wasn't getting the odds to draw.

As you can see, in both cases the turn card would have given me trips with an ace kicker and in the first hand it would have definitely been the winning hand. I felt like I missed two of the few opportunities I had all night to take down a couple of pots. I told myself the same things I usually do, and it's mostly true, that in the position I was in I was more likely to lose than win and a call was not right, especially calling 2 bets in the first hand. Raising didn't seem right either, especially in the first hand.

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

folding could be correct, i'm not saying it isn't. but i am against raising here.

that is why i asked my first 2 questions: does he bluff or bet draws? a lot of people when they are last to act and it has been checked to them will bet with any 2 cards. if he's not that type of player, but will only bet TP, folding is the right play.

he could be on a straight draw, flush draw, weaker 6, smaller pocket pair. i figure we have the BDFD (1.5) and 5 outs for our 6s and Aces (6.5 outs), so if i keep the others in i'm getting 7:1 and so it is break even. but by raising in a small pot with a hand that is possibly behind, i'm ruining those odds and am OOP.

i'll admit, it is a bit loose, but depending on your read, it isn't bad in this situation.

Re: 2 hands in the SB with Axo
 

hand 1 is played properly. don't be result-oriented here. welcome to the danger of completing Axo in a large field [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]