Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

I like it a lot. I might be inclined to call the river just to make sure he plays a set of kings like this. The bet you lose will be reaped later.

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

[ QUOTE ]
No notes.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

completely standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

the english monk says you done good.

Barron

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

[ QUOTE ]
Very weak. Bet flop. Bet turn. Check river UI, bet any improvement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

5 handed he could be 3-betting lots of hands here like 77-99, AJ, KK, whatever. I'd call the river to see what he 3bet then checked the flop with, given that I called the turn. Would a turn fold be horrible? Pot is pretty tiny.

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

flop check is standard for me. all1n says that a pf 3bet plus flop check is a monster less than wed think, but you still have no semibluff equity here. i dont think ive ever seen a player 3bet preflop and check-call/fold the flop check-fold the turn. river is a really nice laydown. solid

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

[ QUOTE ]

I know what you're trying to say with this hand, but do you think his flop check followed by a turn bet translates to "AQ or better" at least 86% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

.. followed by river bet. That's the street that defines his hand a lot in my opinion. The turn bet doesn't change anything, i think that range is the exact same as his flop check range.

I just think it's really likely he has the monster hands. Monster hands are a tiny bit more likely preflop, say 3:2. On the top i think they become a lot more likely, say 3:1 i.e. 3 monsters for every 1 weak. Turn nothing changes, 1:1 here. River about 2:1 more likely.

Maybe betting the flop for a free turn was a good plan, shrug. I'd never get a chance to define his hand then though, his river bet could be a lot in that line.

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

Pre-flop: obviously, no problem.

Flop: IF you agree that the check on the flop is the correct line, then I think the rest is correct as well, but--

--I believe you're still best off finding out some information on the flop when it's a SB.

Could he make this same play with JJ or 99?

While I know you risk getting caught in check-raises more often then not when you auto-bet in position with these types of hands, I still think between the open-ender and back-door flush draw, combined with your position on the guy (further compounded by you having no notes on him...)

Speaking of which, isn't that also part of the equation, then, or am I reading too much into it: is this an entirely new player since you have zero notes on him? That being the case...

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

I like checking this flop..... I would say that at least 80% of the time he is holding a very strong hand (10's,K10,AK). What kind of hand would he check with that is weak here? Maybe he has an underpair to the K and the 10, and was trying to isolate you? Although, I would think that he would bet that too.... He either completely wiffed, which means he 3 Bet with a very weak hand, he holds a monster or he is one hell of a good player that knows that you will check behind! I am going to go with the monster.... why not take a free card with a draw?

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

On the flop, the thing is about betting if you get check/raised you spend a BB, but it's not even close to a full BB, you have those good nut outs and there's a decent chance he's doing something weird and you have pair outs too which brings your equity in that BB on the flop up pretty high.

On the other hand, he's probably not folding, if you bet the flop and he calls you should check behind on the turn so you're playing to save just 1 SB, (you get 1 SB in on the flop instead of 1 BB in on the turn), vs. risking putting a BB in on the flop. Still though because of equity %'s and the way the hand plays out it feels better if you bet the flop.

He 3 bet preflop, if he has AK, AQ, AJ he has you beat. Was he making this play with AT or a low pocket pair? Probably not, he probably wouldn't 3 bet preflop with those (maybe he would with AT), and can he risk check/raising here? Doesn't seem like it. Still there is some doubt, he could be playing JJ, AT, a low pocket pair weirdly. What do you think Jay about this?

Re: PFR 3 bet, flop check
 

[ QUOTE ]
I definately bet the flop. IMO, this 3-bet followed by a check is a monster wayyy less than you guys think in the 30/60 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is your point that a good player will do this 3bet or 4bet preflop and check flop with both monsters and nothing at all?

In the first case he risks very little and in the second case he can take the whole pot with a turnbet because other guy will check flop "knowing he is up against a monster"?

At least this is how I think when I check flop HU after reraising preflop against thinking players that knows I am a thinking player. I 3bet with KQ, flop is Axx, I check, they check, I bet turn and they proudly folds their pocketpair.