Re: Play Along...... street by street - The FLOP
 

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While a flush or open-ended straight draw is making a small mistake by calling this bet, a small bet will also induce hands like a gutshot or middle pair to make a bigger mistake by taking a card off.

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Moreover, you're controlling the size of the pot, so you're not spewing chips when your hand happens to be behind. Keeping the hands you're beating in, while losing less money to the hands you're behind to. That's just as important - if not more so - than pricing out the draws.

There are recent threads on this, one in particular by Strassa2, that spring to mind. Read em.

I\'m VERY pleased so far
 

The PF post didn't get much attention, but now that we have a flop that is semi draw-heavy, a multi-way pot, and a decent, though vulnerable holding, we are seeing many more reactions to the play on the flop from differing playing personas, which is what I had hoped to get here.

Personally, I don't think there is a "right way" or a "wrong way" at this point in the hand, but for myself, I feel that some actions are much better than others, and those I will keep to myself until we see the hand through to the end.

I am not making this post in any way from a teaching stand point (as I am far from that), but I thought this might get some more discussion going in this forum and create "something new and different" for those of us interested in strategy and decisions made semi early on in MTTs to discuss.

Thanks for the great replies so far.... The turn will be posted sometime this afternoon.

'Mez

Re: I\'m VERY pleased so far
 

I want to make one more point before I shut my trap.
I have taken a more agressive line with this hand, primairly due to the realative shallow stacks and quick blind structures. Given a chip leading postion or earlier in the tournament, I get away from this hand in a heartbeat, and am probably folding this preflop. KQ is not a hand I ever like playing as it often crosses many other possible holdings. I think low suited cards are much more +ev than KQ ever is when multi-way action and when favorable pot odds exist. thanks for the feedback. I clearly think there is more than one side to this discussion.

go jackets.

Re: Play Along...... street by street - The FLOP
 

I disagree. In your average internet tourney if someone has KJ or Kx suited, which are both very realistic possabilities, I'd expect them to call a push here. Most the short stacks will think this is the best hand they'll get and be willing to call. The big stacks will probably think they have enough chips that even if their KJ is not winning, it won't kill them.

I'm not sure where I'd go here. I think I'm ahead here and my stack is so small I'd be pretty happy about taking the pot down right here. Most likely I'd bet out about 300 and push on the turn if no scare card came. But I also don't think a push is horrible. It's certainly not the best way to get the most out of this hand. But with the board this coordinated and so many people in the pot, I'd be content with taking the safe route, getting 450 chips now, and finding a way to eek out those extra couple hundred chips I'd possibly get another way.

Re: I\'m VERY pleased so far
 

based on all the response to this thread, i think we can all agree that KQ sucks

Re: Play Along...... street by street - The FLOP
 

The issue of overthinking a hand when your opponents are barely even thinking does arise, doesn't it?

If we put them on a range that includes KJ, Kx sooted, and then throw in the other possible hands, is our push still +EV? I wonder. I'm too lazy to do any math right now.

But I'm inclined to agree with you that a worse king calls you.

I'd still rather bet small on the flop and push the turn.

Re: I\'m VERY pleased so far
 

I think I can confidantly presume that when you say you normally dump KQ, it is a standard play, no?

What we are looking at here is a situation where the table has a loose/passive texture, and it is quite likely that we are the best player at the current table.

If those things are true, then I think the value of a hand like KQs rises dramatically in value and can be played from a mid position area for a limp here.

Once again, those are my thoughts and we are not talking about a standard situation or TAG table here, to say the least.

Each situation must be analyzed of it's own accord and merits and acted upon in the best possible way.

Re: Play Along...... street by street - The FLOP
 

What is the size of your stack? What about your opponents? Are they aggressive or passive? Answers to these questions govern how I play this hand.

Re: I\'m VERY pleased so far
 

yes i will dump kq in a heartbeat from any early action. when "correct" table conditions exist, I will play this hand differently, especially if action is folded to me.

Re: Play Along...... street by street - The FLOP
 

I listed the link to PF play in the OP... if you missed it, the link is here



Ummmmmmm... plus all relevant information is in the OP.......