Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

I'm curious as to how often you guys 3-bet PF and how often you call/cr. I'm never sure when to do which.

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you hate it more than when he just calls and then CR the flop ?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a fantastic question . . . were you the guy who linked to an old thread by Nikla re blind wars (I think in that instance he asked why one should bother capping in the SB preflop after the BB 3-bets your SB open-raise, when a flop checkraise would get more respect while investing the same amount of cash)? Same point.

However, I would say that I respect a 3-bet from the big blind more than I respect a flop checkraise, at least when the flop is ragged and the guy doing it is a TAG. When someone 3-bets me from the BB I automatically put him on a strong ace or a good pocket, and am quite annoyed if I find out he had anything but. In other words, I find it annoying, but not suspicious. A flop check-raise, I find both annoying and suspicious (i.e., I might be more likely to play back).

Tough question . . .

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

Great post Sthief.

[ QUOTE ]
- We need to get to showdown as often as we can. This is is citical in making sure you win close to as much as you should. For example, if you have 54 against QJ, you'll win 37% of the time hot and cold, but if you're checking and folding the flop 90% of the time, then you're obviously going to win less than 10% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that not true? It seems it would be OK to fold out 90% of the time if it maximizes our BB's won?

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you hate it more than when he just calls and then CR the flop ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Me and Einbert were looking over this line, and it seems to get the defender in more trouble than it's worth.

Look at it from the stealers point of view: He can bluff 3-bet here, he can 3-bet for value here, he can 3-bet for a free card, he can call and raise the turn, on a bluff or for value.

That flop check-raise is just looking to get abused like Mason's ex-wife. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok this is a really basic question but I'm relatively new to shorthand play and blind play is still new and scary. I read somewhere that it's almost never correct to just call a steal raise from the small blind. Generally 3bet or fold (unless you're trapping with a monster). Can anyone shed any light on this? I find myself kinda lost in the SB against a steal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually you want the hand heads up with the stealer, so if you just call in the small blind, you're giving the big blind good odds to come along cheaply. This is not what you want, so you 3-bet the majority of the time out the small blind in steal situations. This gives you the initiative in the hand, so that when both of you miss the flop, you're more likely to take down the pot. This is not always what you must do, but usually it is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind doing that with some weaker hands. having two people call him really slows the stealer down if he misses the flop, and it gives us better odds. Being OOP sucks, but we're kinda in better position than the BB, because we're acting relatively last.

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

I'd rather call/cr with a hand that's going to be ahead a lot, and is going to get a decent piece a lot. I think the ideal hand to just call a steal preflop with is one like AKs. AKo isn't so bad either. however there have been times where I've gone check-call check-call check-fold with AK after calling preflop, which always makes me feel like I should be 3-betting

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Great post Sthief.

[ QUOTE ]
- We need to get to showdown as often as we can. This is is citical in making sure you win close to as much as you should. For example, if you have 54 against QJ, you'll win 37% of the time hot and cold, but if you're checking and folding the flop 90% of the time, then you're obviously going to win less than 10% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that not true? It seems it would be OK to fold out 90% of the time if it maximizes our BB's won?

[/ QUOTE ]


I think you're reading too deeply into that. it would be ok to fold 90% if we won money but it's a lot harder to win money winning less than 10% of the time. there's no way folding 90% of the time will maximize our profit.

I didn't even read my post before I posted it but I think what I was getting at is that we need to be a little less selective on the flop. if you ahve it, read the SH section in HPFAP. I read it again recently and a lot of it made sense to me. it's not enough to just call enough preflop. you have to call enough on the flop, the turn, and the river. part of this is creating bluff outs. if the flop is 875, then regardless of what you have, check-callign the flop and leading the turn might even turn a profit.

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

ok I think I know what I meant. basically he's raising because he thinks his hand is worth 2 bets. our hand doesn't need to be worth 2 bets to call. only one.

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

[ QUOTE ]
He can bluff 3-bet here

[/ QUOTE ]
And he couldn´t bluffraise if you 3bet preflop ?

[ QUOTE ]
he can 3-bet for value here

[/ QUOTE ]

And he couldn´t raise for value ?

[ QUOTE ]
he can 3-bet for a free card

[/ QUOTE ]

And he couldn´t raise for a free card ?

[ QUOTE ]
he can call and raise the turn, on a bluff or for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

And he couldn´t do that if you 3bet ?

I dont think any of these should make you more apt to 3bet against guys who usually will let you check-raise.

When you check-raise you are getting the same 3 bets as if you 3bet preflop, but you also get to see the flop first and doesn´t give him the option of capping.

Re: Blind Defense (In General)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

-0.07 in SB
-0.13 in BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you post your blinds positional stats? Or any further info?
Any post flop tactics? Are you loose or tight in blinds etc

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know how to get those screendumps from PT (Someone want to PM me how to do it?). FSB to steal 87% FBB to steal 38% (low?). Also I am very far from an expert in blinds play so about the tactics I would listen to sthief and the others instead [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
If some really good player want to share how much they lose in the blinds that would be interesting...