Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How many Donkeys have you made? One would wager Chris Moneymaker made more donkeys than dollars when he won the WSOP.

Of course one could argue that they were already donkeys and Moneymaker just lead them to the promised land, but Donkeyleader isn't in his last name.

[/ QUOTE ]

On a side note, DonkeyLover might be a cool screen name to have. Or maybe DonkeyHoetee.

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From this post I can assume you suck at poker. However on this higher level tourneys,people probably have wider calling ranges than in SNGs, but Im sure you brain didnt make it here, Im sure moneymaker made sure the player was kinda noob before trying his mathematically correct play .( moneymaker didnt hope the guy would fold, he figured a calling range for his oponent and then he thought the range was tight enough, was he right? well never know since AK is basically on every calling range with short stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. I'm not a great poker player. I don't understand why he would do that. I'd also forgotten that Moneymaker is a posterboy for the Poker Everyman and that I'm apparantly only allowed to dislike Hellmuth.

My REAL point, which one guy in the thread said he got, was that Moneymaker seems to be kinda teetering in his life. The cardplayer video of him made him seem like an old star trek actor charging kids ten bucks for an autograph.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont see how we were supposed to get this point at all from your OP.

which, by the way, was completely wrong. nothing wrong with bluffing with any two cards with one player left to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't agree with that, it's a pretty big overstatement to say "nothing wrong with bluffing with any two with one player left to act"...it's a heck of a lot better to wait for e.g. a jack high to do it, because if you get called you really want to have a shot of having at least one overcard to your opp's lower card (for the obvious math reasons already discussed). That's why you never hear of people busting out of major events with seven deuce...they picked a better spot than a seven high. So, that's why it's interesting that mm did it.

btw, good line about the star trek actor charging ten bucks an autograph, nh other guy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[quote
i dont see how we were supposed to get this point at all from your OP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also suck at writing. My bad. At least I'm taking the flames like a man.

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[quote

That's why you never hear of people busting out of major events with seven deuce...they picked a better spot than a seven high. So, that's why it's interesting that mm did it.



[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, which is why it struck me as funny to think, "what if he did that as a publicity stunt, and it backfired?" yeah, yeah, im sure his math was correct and I suck at poker and yada yada. But it's still funny to think about.

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

Suited, not easily dominated by regular calling ranges, shortstack, one player left to act, possibly some FE = allin.

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Suited, not easily dominated by regular calling ranges, shortstack, one player left to act, possibly some FE = allin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess if your getting squeezed, any Ax would be one of the best hands to push with,

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with that is several of the hands likely to call a shortstack push contain A's. i.e. - AA, AK, AQ.

Ax is in big trouble then and you're better off with two little live ones.

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
My REAL point, which one guy in the thread said he got, was that Moneymaker seems to be kinda teetering in his life.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is he decided to become a pro poker player without becoming a winning poker player, first. So now he has to become a winning player, but he's the ex-champ and he probably doesn't even realize that he's not that good. So he signs autograph's and writes more books.

Not that different than any has been actor or athlete.

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with that is several of the hands likely to call a shortstack push contain A's. i.e. - AA, AK, AQ.

Ax is in big trouble then and you're better off with two little live ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your stack is too small you are likely to get called by anything, so having an Ace is much preferable.

Re: Moneymaker implosion?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From this post I can assume you suck at poker. However on this higher level tourneys,people probably have wider calling ranges than in SNGs, but Im sure you brain didnt make it here, Im sure moneymaker made sure the player was kinda noob before trying his mathematically correct play .( moneymaker didnt hope the guy would fold, he figured a calling range for his oponent and then he thought the range was tight enough, was he right? well never know since AK is basically on every calling range with short stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. I'm not a great poker player. I don't understand why he would do that. I'd also forgotten that Moneymaker is a posterboy for the Poker Everyman and that I'm apparantly only allowed to dislike Hellmuth.

My REAL point, which one guy in the thread said he got, was that Moneymaker seems to be kinda teetering in his life. The cardplayer video of him made him seem like an old star trek actor charging kids ten bucks for an autograph.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont see how we were supposed to get this point at all from your OP.

which, by the way, was completely wrong. nothing wrong with bluffing with any two cards with one player left to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't agree with that, it's a pretty big overstatement to say "nothing wrong with bluffing with any two with one player left to act"...it's a heck of a lot better to wait for e.g. a jack high to do it, because if you get called you really want to have a shot of having at least one overcard to your opp's lower card (for the obvious math reasons already discussed). That's why you never hear of people busting out of major events with seven deuce...they picked a better spot than a seven high. So, that's why it's interesting that mm did it.

btw, good line about the star trek actor charging ten bucks an autograph, nh other guy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


As has been stated previously, it is often better to push with something like 64s or even 72s than with J8o because your opponent is much less likely to have you dominated, so at least you have 2 live cards and with antes in the pot you are definitely getting the at least 2-1 odds you need against most hands. The only thing you are truly afraid of in this situation, that would make it a bad push, is an overpair to your cards (or 77 but this is less likely anyhow). Its all about the math and the fact that next time you have slightly less total chips pushing into 2 people, assuming you get to open, then through 3, etc...