Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

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Players are going to do what players are going to do.

Playing in a 1/2 NL the other day, a player who called my all-in (bitching and moaning about how poor his cards were and he was giving me money but had to 'keep me honest') didn't show his cards.

In this case I was 99+% certain that he's required to show when he called an all-in. I just waited and when he tried to muck, I said to the dealer that I wanted to see his cards. Dealer showed the table (btw, it he was holding middle pair with an A kicker).

Anyway, my point is that if you want to see something or have a question about whether you're entitled, ask the dealer.

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I thought this too, but as long as they're calling you, they don't have to show it.

This discussion is (hopefully) about when they're being called, not when they're calling other people.

The reason to ask to see a caller's cards is to prevent collusion, which you should have known he wasn't, since it was the two of you at the river. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Asking to see a loser's cards is in extremely poor taste (unless said loser bet and then didn't show). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

However, I can understand your impression that a caller of an all-in shows his hand in NLHE (because that's the way they do it online). As a matter of course, though, that's not a rule.

--Dave.

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

I think we get it.

If a player isn't turning over his cards, it's one of three things --

1. He forgot
2. He doesn't know any better
3. He's holding out on you.

The first two are benign and the problem will be corrected when you talk to them. In the third case, the player is being a bit of an ass and you may have to ask each and every time. Players will do what players will do. No matter what, getting pissed will probably throw off your own game in which case the ass wins.

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

Like I said in the other post. Someone who is doing this is often betting very weak hands on the river or bluffing a lot and does not want to show. If you force him to show everytime it would discourage him from playing this way. Why would you want to do that?

Its more important to keep your opponents playing badly than it is to see his hand (which you know is crap anyway or he wouldn't be playing these games).

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

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I usually just tell the guy to show his cards.

What really annoys me is when I show my hand first and then my opponent holds his cards up and stares at them for 10-15 seconds while shaking his head and dreaming about what might have been before mucking.

That really slows down the game for no reason. You lost the hand, you don't need to grieve, just muck it.

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I'm 30. I'm pretty sure you outdistance me by a couple of years. I for one am relishing the opportunity to do this at regular intervals. Even more when I'm old enough such that the rest of the table expects it just because of my AARP membership. You should too.


<shuffle>
<shuffle>
<scowl>
<muck>

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I do have a few years on you. I will grow old gracefully, but I don't plan on becoming one of those guys.

Its not just old people who do this, just people who like to chase long shots. This one guy I used to play stud with was great at this. He would always stare at his cards and complain that he could never complete a straight. The problem was the he picked up all these straight draws on 6th Street.

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

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In this case I was 99+% certain that he's required to show when he called an all-in.

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Only in a tournament (to prevent chip dumping).

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I just waited and when he tried to muck, I said to the dealer that I wanted to see his cards. Dealer showed the table (btw, it he was holding middle pair with an A kicker).

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You have the *right* to see his cards since they went to showdown. However, he is not required (or even expected) to show them in a cash game. The last agressor is normally expected to show first. If the caller can beat him, he shows, otherwise he's free to muck.

BTW, it's generally considered a dick move to ask the dealer to see someone's cards, *ESPECIALLY* when you just won the pot from them.

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

I hope ignorance is a partial excuse, it won't happen again

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

I also dislike it when you are in the hand, and are the last caller.
The original better stalls, then the dealer says something like,
"OK people, let's see 'em"
or
"first one over wins."

The dealer should run the game. They should discourage stalling, and be direct to the original better-
"let's see them" or " you were called, what do you have".

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

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BTW, it's generally considered a dick move to ask the dealer to see someone's cards, *ESPECIALLY* when you just won the pot from them.

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Does that hold true even if the person showed his neighbor before mucking? It's hard to restrain myself -- Show one, show all violations are a big peeve of mine. Recently I was reminded that asking to see makes the opponent's hand live again, so I really should just forget about it and stack the pot.

And on a different already-mentioned topic, even though I trust the consensus here that insisting to look at the callers hand is only intended as an anti-collusion measure, I've yet to find anyone at a low-limit table that agrees with this (including dealers). Everyone and his brother asks to see calling hands with impunity. Presumably poker knowledge is better at the higher limits.

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

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And on a different already-mentioned topic, even though I trust the consensus here that insisting to look at the callers hand is only intended as an anti-collusion measure, I've yet to find anyone at a low-limit table that agrees with this (including dealers). Everyone and his brother asks to see calling hands with impunity. Presumably poker knowledge is better at the higher limits.

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Yeah, that's one of my pet peeves. I think that if someone asks to see a hand, they should be required to explain why they think the player is cheating. And this requirement should be clearly stated in the room's rules. Anyone who asks to see a hand just to get a line on someone else's play should be firmly and publicly corrected.

-Mike

Re: Players who don\'t show their cards on the river
 

I show immediately when we get to showdown whether I bet or called, just to get it over with and move on to the next hand. At low level games, I doubt people's ability to use the info they gain, and I feel like I can get by without the info they're withholding by not showing.

Getting the game moving and not being part of the slow-rolling douchebag movement is worth a considerable amount to me.

Martin