Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

This fold kinda makes me sick. Leaving your with only 2700 chips behind or something.

Blackjack

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

I guess I'm putting Fischman on a set of 4s here, and if so, I like how he played it.

Obviously my reads aren't accurate 100% of the time though and I don't much like folding top two pair with that much of your stack in. That's a big fold.

I hope you were right.

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

‘Checking is basically giving up on this hand…’

Only if you are planning to fold to a reraise if you bet, which imho you should not of done (Stack of 55BB for a call and win compared to 12BB for a fold gives significantly better real odds than the 3.7:1 pot odds). I like a second checkraise here, or a value bet on a non heart river if Scott checks behind on the turn.

Steve

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

Without reading any of the posts made in this thread after the first, I think I have to call here.

At the flop, there is 600 in the pot. Fischman makes it 325 to go, you checkraise to 1325, he calls. Something like 4000 in the pot at this point.

Turn comes, terrible card, completing the heart draw. You bet out 1500, he puts you all in. At this point you've got... Something like 2400 chips in front of you, so you would have to call 2400 to win something like 12000. Getting offered almost 6:1 I think, if my math is right (it's really early). So, he only needs to be on J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Tx or something else you've got beat (86o comes to mind) once every 6 times to make this the right call.

I call here, with the insane amount of money in the pot, and top two pair, even with the heart falling. I would probably kick myself if he had the flush, but I make the call.

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

I think you were behind here. I think Fischman flopped a set or called your check-raise with a hand like AhJh, KhJh, or Th9h which made a flush on the turn. The only hands that you beat that I could see Fischman calling your check-raise with and then pushing against your turn bet are AA or KK - and I don't give those a lot of probability. I don't think he would give you the kind of pot odds he was giving you ATT if he didn't think he had you beat. The fact that he pushed you out of one pot already does not mean that he is confident that he can do it again, in fact he might be more leary that with the action you've showed that you'll be ready to take a stand this time (with a second best hand).

I think you made a good fold, but that of course is JMO.

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

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I would have looked at my hand after the flop and checkraised all-in take it down there and then.. and hope he didn't flopped his set..

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I don't really like this. I think I should bet enough to make it incorrect for him to call but not so much that he has an easy fold of any hand that doesn't have me beat badly.

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

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This fold kinda makes me sick. Leaving your with only 2700 chips behind or something.



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I had 2400 chips behind. Care to expand on your thoughts?

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

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I would have seriously considered the possibily that he had either AA with a heart or KK with a heart.


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Doesn't anyone think in terms of hand ranges? Compared to his entire spectrum of limping hands here how often does he really have AA or KK? I think we are talking about a very small amount of the time where he really does have AA or KK and if he did wouldn't it be better to reraise me all in on the flop after I check raise?

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

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I hope that clears up some of what I was trying to say before.

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Yes, it does and I hope I wasn't rude in my initial reply to you.

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I don't know how the rest of the table was playing

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I hadn't been there that long to get a real good feel for it either.

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maybe 12xBB was enough of a stack that you felt you could really make a run for the FT.

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I think this was the critical flaw in my thought process. In hindsight I don't think 12BB was even close considering the fact that I may not get another good spot to chip up again in the near future (not as good as spot as I have right here).

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But in my mind, you have to call this because of the chance that you're ahead against his TPGK, ahead against his semi-bluff, or that you still have some out against his flush.


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I see a lot of talk in this thread about how Fishman is bluffing - and a lot of it would imply that he is bluffing a large percentage of the time here. (I'm not saying that you are implying that but a lot of posts are). I think it is rediculous to assume he is bluffing as often as people are implying in this thread. I also think that my thought process during the hand was a little off and I should not have disregarded the possibility entirely. I think he is bluffing/semi-bluffing a small percentage of the time here and has me beat the vast majority of the time... but that doesn't mean that I think my fold was right.

Re: WSOP $1500NL - Hand vs. Scott Fishman
 

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I read a few of the replys and no one mentioned what they thought Fish put YOU on. I think your check raise on the flop shows real strength, either two pair, a set, or a flush draw. When the flush card hits on fourth street and you lead out, I am really thinking Fish puts your most likely hand at J-something of hearts. I don't put Fish on AA or KK with a heart (a flop reraise certainly would have been appropriate with those hands, hearts or none). I also don't think Fish would expect you to lay down a hand that he put you on on the flop (two pair, set, now made flush). IMHO, I don't believe this is a semi-bluff. I am thinking Fish is expecting a call here. I think you're beat (but then again, all my friends tell me I'm weak-tight, so maybe I just have no balls). Harrington or not, I make this lay down.


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Or, Fischman is stealing on the flop and SB resteals. Fisch calls and blows him off his hand on scary turn cards, with hero making a nice continuating looking bet that's pretty small given pot size.


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Yup, the check-raise on the flop looks like a resteal against a limper, and the turn bet is a continuation bet that is small enough that the OP can still get off the hand and have some chips to play with.

ts-


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I think Occam's Razor kind of applies to this line of thinking. It just isn't very likely that this is a steal/re-steal/re-re-steal situation. Are those situations really that common? It has not been my experience.