Re: QQ - Party 15/30
 

How can I give ranges without reads?

Re: QQ - Party 15/30
 

Didn't you see he had JJ? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: QQ - Party 15/30
 

I've not seen anyone talk about counterfeiting a hand here.

If UTG+2 has something like T4, we still have 8 outs.

I can't find a fold here, but I don't like a 3 bet.

Re: QQ - Party 15/30
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've not seen anyone talk about counterfeiting a hand here.

If UTG+2 has something like T4, we still have 8 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was mentioned somewhere.

The only 2 pairs hand a reasonable player has here is T9s.

And there are only 2 combos of that hand. (again, a read helps this as well)

Re: QQ - Party 15/30
 

I'm not posting this to kill Will personally--I think he's a valuable contributor to the forum, but I think this post demonstrates a huge problem with many posts on twoplustwo, and I'd imagine a huge problem with many posters' games--you guys don't pay enough attention to your opponents.

This hand looks like a decent time to fold in a vacuum:

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop:
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, CO calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (13.66 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, CO calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (8.33 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP2 folds, CO calls.

River: (13.33 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, CO calls.

Final Pot: 15.33 BB
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: 15.33 BB, between UTG+2 and CO.</font> &gt; Pot won by UTG+2 (15.33 BB).

Results :
UTG+2 has 6d 9h (two pair, nines and sixes).
CO has Js Jh (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 15.33 BB.

But, imagine that Will had taken anecdotal notes about things his opponent had done in the past. Then he might have a note that said this:

coldcalling fucktard--9ts to the cap
checkraised flopped nut flush into pf3-bettor on flop and turn
has raised absolute trash UTG and then checkraised the flop rando ep turn bet out bluff
{{VPIP: 32 - PFR: 11 - HANDS: 576
AF-F: 1.0 - AF-T: 1.4 - AF-R: 1.2 - CR: 2
ASB: 26 - FBB: 38 - FRB: 40 - Win@SD: 40}}&gt;

If Will had been watching the table, he might have seen this hand:

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop:
<font color="#CC3333">UTG (Will's opponent)raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MPA 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MPA bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MPA calls, BB calls $19.50 (All-In), UTG calls, MPA calls.

Turn: (8.28 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MPA raises</font>, UTG calls.

River: (12.28 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MPA bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 14.28 BB
Main Pot: 8.28 BB, between UTG, MPA and BB.
Pot won by MPA (8.28 BB).
<font color="#009B00">Pot 2: 6 BB, between UTG and MPA.</font> &gt; Pot won by MPA (6 BB).
Results :
BB has Th 7h (one pair, nines).
UTG has 8c 5c (two pair, nines and eights).
MPA has Qd Ad (two pair, queens and nines).
Outcome: MPA wins 14.28 BB.

Or this one:

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop:
UTG calls (Will's opponent), <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: 7 BB, between UTG and SB.</font> &gt; Pot won by SB (7 BB).

Results:
SB has Jc 4s (one pair, jacks).
UTG has 5d 4d (one pair, fives).
Outcome: SB wins 7 BB.


Maybe having a sense that the guy who checkraised him was bizzare would have made Will's decision easier. It certainly would have made it easier for other posters to comment on the hand.

scrub